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krisi
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Re: Samsung
krisi   8/7/2013 5:32:48 PM
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I give it 10 years to happen...let's check then ;-)

bmccleanicinsights
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Rookie
Re: Samsung
bmccleanicinsights   8/7/2013 5:06:58 PM
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You are absolutely correct, Intel has their own set of "issues" regarding future grwowth.  All things considered, it will be tough for Samsung to overtake Intel in total semi sales unless Intel has a big collapse.

krisi
User Rank
CEO
Re: Samsung
krisi   8/7/2013 3:18:10 PM
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thank you @bmcic... so major portion of Samsung growth (Apple) is going slowsly away to TSMC...but at least their own smartphone business is still pulling them ahead...Intel on the other hand has very little growth ahead of them with PC market going down

bmccleanicinsights
User Rank
Rookie
Re: Samsung
bmccleanicinsights   8/7/2013 2:43:50 PM
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Over the past few years, it appeared that Samsung would make a real run at replacing Intel in the number one spot.  However, some new issues may continue to delay this possibility. 

Even after a 23% surge in the 2Q13/1Q13 DRAM market, second-ranked Samsung registered a very surprising 2% decline in 2Q13/1Q13 semiconductor sales.  Although the company's 2Q13/1Q13 memory sales were up 7%, this increase was unable to offset a steep 17% decline in the company's 2Q13/1Q13 logic sales.  Samsung attributed the bulk of the decline in its logic sales to poor sales of high-end application processor sales into the smartphone market (Samsung produces the application processors for Apple's iPhones as part of its foundry work for Apple and Apple's iPhone unit sales were down 17% in 2Q13 as compared to 1Q13).  With the bifurcation of the smartphone market between high-end and "economy" models in full swing, as well as the movement of an increasing portion of the Apple foundry business to TSMC and GlobalFoundries, Samsung is likely to face increasing pressures with regard to its logic sales in the second half of 2013 and into 2014.

krisi
User Rank
CEO
Samsung
krisi   8/7/2013 1:57:20 PM
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At which point Samsung is going to catch up to Intel?

Tom Murphy
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Blogger
Re: double dipping?
Tom Murphy   8/7/2013 12:54:22 PM
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Thank BM Mc for your detailed reply.  There are certainly other sources (as Peter noted) for marketshare if folks need those.

bmccleanicinsights
User Rank
Rookie
Re: double dipping?
bmccleanicinsights   8/7/2013 12:36:17 PM
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Hi Tom,

I wanted to respond to you and Peter regarding the thread we have going about including the foundries in the top 20 ranking.

Because IC Insights is in the business of selling market research, I believe we have a more "practical" viewpoint regarding the ranking.  If we take out the foundries we essentially have a marketshare ranking.  It may be interesting but is it really useful?  In our opinion it is not useful.  The semiconductor suppliers on the list supply everything from power discretes, sensors, flash memory, MCUs, MPUs, analog, etc.  Comparing the total semi marektshare of Intel versus Samsung versus TI really isn't useful.  

In our McClean Report we list the marketshares of the top analog, MCU, DRAM, MEMS, etc. suppliers and don't include the foundries.  This information can be very useful if you are an analog supplier measuring yourself against your competition.  I really don't think TI cares that it has less marketshare than Intel in the total semiconductor market but it does care where ST, its long time competitor, ranks in the list of top analog suppliers.

Let's take two very different products, silicon wafers and CAD equipment.  If you are a supplier of these products and trying to determine which companies are potential customers, the "marketshare" list is not very helpful.  Missing TSMC, GlobalFoundries, UMC, SMIC, etc., exludes huge potential customers for your products.  Our supplier list, including foundries, fabless, and IDMs, provides a more useful list to these companies.

The bottom line is, if you are interested, for some reason, what a company's total semiconductor marketshare is, then the foundries can be exluded.  If you want to know which companies are the largest suppliers of semiconductors, then the foundries should be included.

For us, it does not require any additional research to put together a ranking excluding the foundries.  IC Insights maintains a complete worldwide company profile database of over 200 semiconductor suppliers (Strategic Reviews Database) and we routinely list the top 50 semiconductor suppliers in our McClean Report.  So, as part of this discussion, I sent Peter Clarke a list of the top 20 semiconductor suppliers without the foundries that he can attach at the end of the original article (Nvidia, Fujitsu, and Marvell move into the ranking as a result) if he wants to.  In this way, your readers can see the ranking with and without the foundries, which should hopefully make everybody happy. :)  Sorry for such a long post!

Peter Clarke
User Rank
Blogger
Re: double dipping?
Peter Clarke   8/7/2013 6:00:25 AM
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Other market researchers, such as Gartner, produce rankings that exclude the foundries.

Peter Clarke
User Rank
Blogger
Re: double dipping?
Peter Clarke   8/7/2013 5:59:24 AM
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As I said in copy

 

"IC Insights defends the inclusion of fabbed, fabless, and foundry companies in its ranking -- which might invoke double-counting of some sales -- by saying the list is not a market-share ranking."

Tom Murphy
User Rank
Blogger
Re: double dipping?
Tom Murphy   8/6/2013 10:24:39 PM
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Thanks B McClean. I think that part was clear in the story, but it would be nice to exclude the double-counting, though we recognize it would require more research.

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