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Wobbly
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CEO
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
Wobbly   8/14/2013 6:33:26 PM
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Car tuners regularly modify the tuning maps in modern ECUs.

Sheetal.Pandey
User Rank
Manager
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
Sheetal.Pandey   8/13/2013 2:05:58 AM
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I will wonder what a hacker would get after breaking into ECUs of automobiles. In my opinion looking at the primary purpose of a car that's transport, the manufacturer would never let electronics take the upper hand in security and safety of the vehicle. People if using smartphone inside car may not always keep its network freely accessible.

But yes its great that the hackers researched the option. Precautions are always better than cure.

 

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
Bert22306   8/12/2013 7:13:22 PM
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Just as an aside, my bet is that if the automakers are overly concerned about people hacking into their electronics, it's not mostly for the reasons assumed in these various car hacking threads. My bet is, the automakers are trying to defend aginst onwners of these vehicles "adjusting" their cars, e.g. to extract better performance. The few scary examples, like remotely incapacitating brakes, are most likely the exception to this, not the rule.

An obvious example is the speed limiter. Cars are often speed-limited on purpose, so the manufacturer can legally install lower grade tires as standard equipment. If the car goes too fast, a tire fails, and the owner sues, the manufacturer doesn't want to be dragged into court by the hacker-owner who was the actual culprit.

Ditto for any modifications that might cause premature failure or wear of any other component. That's my bet.

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
Bert22306   8/12/2013 4:28:40 PM
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But once again, should I list the type of mischief that a mechanic could create, even in ancient cars that aren't full of ECUs? How many people check for these things?

Either intentionally, or just cluelessly. I already mentioned, for example, improperly bleeding the brake lines, after doing brake work. Does your average owner get under the car and re-bleed the brake lines, before driving the car? I doubt it. Or, pouring contaminated brake fluid into the reservoir (or pouring fluid into a reservoir that was left open and gathered dirt), after doing brake work. Does the average owner check for that? Countless examples like that.

So, what safeguards do we have against these threats? Any at all? Or does no one know that the above examples can both cause sudden and unexpected brake failure?

Loser99
User Rank
Freelancer
I think most people would rather 'hack' an ATM instead
Loser99   8/12/2013 4:19:10 PM
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Who cares about hacking a car? Hacking an ATM is where the money is.

So whats the purpose? To somehow make the car crash or make it easy to steal, or to change the inflation readout of the tires ?  Maybe to change the station on the radio?  The next article should be people concerned with hacking their thermostats or their clock radio's at home.  Millions of people could be late to work if hackers were succesful at changing others home alarm clocks.

junko.yoshida
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
junko.yoshida   8/12/2013 11:05:05 AM
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Much is being made of the fact that an attached device was used in the cited technical paper.  Actually the device could easily have been hidden within the vehicle and be missed by the regular driver.

DrQuine, thanks for making that point.

Moreoever, many automotive electronics designers are interested in finding out any weak links or security holes inside an automotive system -- once "the extremely unlikely hackers" come in.  

Ramu_Embedded
User Rank
Rookie
Security Fails in Vehicel System
Ramu_Embedded   8/12/2013 1:49:48 AM
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Currently all securuty sytem with CAN Based, i.e Only  Data Once you hack the encryption  information then it is easy to hack the device.

in compuers the security is very high because no memory and processoring time, in case vehicel might run not more than 500Mhz. so incorporing huge algorthems to unsecur is verydifficult. even incorporate anybody can see on CAN. to avoid this hackins, 1st need to improve the Security system. like dynamic security system. data trasferon can also encryption data shoud be use.something like this.... i am not expert in security system.

 

 

 

 

_hm
User Rank
CEO
Re: Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
_hm   8/11/2013 9:03:14 AM
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I was wondering how some guy broke my 2011 model car and pilfered devices. I wanted to google how they did it. But this explains it all. But it is surprising, some teenage kid can do this. He broke quite few cars.

DrQuine
User Rank
CEO
Attached device need not be obvious ... and an opportunity to learn
DrQuine   8/10/2013 10:42:25 PM
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Much is being made of the fact that an attached device was used in the cited technical paper.  Actually the device could easily have been hidden within the vehicle and be missed by the regular driver. Nobody (yet) checks for unexpected connections to the diagnostic computer port and the wires leading up to it. It is good this dialogue is beginning as automotive networks become ubiquitous. I hope that the insights gained will protect against the extremely unlikely hackers. More importantly, perhaps they will protect against the much more probable systemic failures that have not been anticipated but will inevitably unfold through time.

Loser99
User Rank
Freelancer
This is idiotic Hype
Loser99   8/9/2013 6:24:16 PM
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Heres the essence of what they are doing:

Find the owner of the car let him get into it and start it and drive with you in the car.  Then "Hack" it by dropping a brick on the accelerator pedal.   Car is hacked.

Wow!  earth shaking that I can hack something by physically modifiying it.

 

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