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rick merritt
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Re: Musk's claim is baseless
rick merritt   10/8/2013 12:44:02 AM
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@Caleb: Great reporting!

I assume the video of the burning Tesla was AFTER the fire department puctured the firewall. Is that right?

Agreed that the realtive saftey of the Tesla is very high and should not spawn a frenzy of EV fears. That said, this is a marketing nightmare and could undermine the company and set back the EV market.

A viral video of a flaming car is so much more powerful than 300 words explaining the technical reality of what happened and the relative saftey of EVs and gasoline engine cars.

daleste
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CEO
Re: Musk's claim is baseless
daleste   10/7/2013 11:18:24 PM
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It is an impressive fire, but I have seen gasoline cars burn like that too.  The numbers do indicate fires happening more often in gasoline vehicles, but I don't think they have enough data yet to prove that batteries are safer for fire danger.

GMF
User Rank
Apprentice
Re: Musk's claim is baseless
GMF   10/7/2013 7:24:07 PM
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Re: Musk's claim is baseless
Caleb, You're right. I did some search about fuel tank safety regulations. Only thing I found is FMCSA393.67 which didn't prohbit bottom mount, not even for gastank mounted after real axle. Only impact related test is 30 feet drop test. Maybe the time to adding bottom impact test for gasoline cars and EV/HEV.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.67
http://www.autosafetyexpert.com/defect_fueltank.php?pagetitle=FUEL%20TANK%20-%20FIRE

Frank Eory
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CEO
Re: Musk's claim is baseless
Frank Eory   10/7/2013 6:32:53 PM
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The undercarriage has armor plating, there are firewalls between battery modules and between the undercarriage and the passenger compartment, and still a foreign object impaled one or more of the batteries, causing a fire. Even without hard data to compare to gasoline combustion engine vehicle fires, that certainly sounds like an outlier incident to me. It is also important to note that the driver was warned to exit the vehicle and escaped uninjured. You don't get that advance warning with a punctured gasoline tank.

Caleb Kraft
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Blogger
Re: Musk's claim is baseless
Caleb Kraft   10/7/2013 4:58:29 PM
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Many cars now(late 90s onward) mount the gas along the bottom of the car (my minivan is a good example). 

 

I think he was speculating about the fact that the tesla has additional armor and batteries to protect the passengers. That debris could have theoretically entered the cabin of a normal car. 

GMF
User Rank
Apprentice
Musk's claim is baseless
GMF   10/7/2013 4:56:09 PM
Musk claimed "...Had a conventional gasoline car encountered the same object on the highway, the result could have been far worse."

Should not be too hard for Musk to find out how many car fires caused by bottom impaction.
The fact is a conventional gasoline car has much less chance to catch fire in the same situation as Tesla, although the fire could be much worse in case it did start. First, a gas tank in a car is far away from ground, comparing to Tesla's bottom mounted battery pack. Secondary, the bottom area of gas tank is much smaller than Tesla's battery pack.



Bert22306
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CEO
Regular cars also catch on fire, from time to time
Bert22306   10/7/2013 4:47:02 PM
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Hasn't anyone ever seen a vehicle fire?

Lithium batteries sure are getting a bad rap, of late. PCs, airplanes, cars, anything more? I'd like to know what kind of debris this Tesla ran over, specifically, and then compare what it might have done to a gasoline tank. Too much vague generality tends to make me skeptical.

Anyway, to continue my mantra, battery powered EVs seem unimaginative and apologetic, at best. It's time to get better EVs out there.

polylith
User Rank
Rookie
Re: how 'bout the batteries
polylith   10/7/2013 4:18:08 PM
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If you take the statements are face value, that Tesla battery fires are 5 times less likely and have 1% the combustion energy of gasoline fires, isn't the car's battery safe enough as is?

PocketBrain
User Rank
Rookie
how 'bout the batteries
PocketBrain   10/7/2013 4:07:45 PM
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I wonder what is the barrier against using a safer battery type.  Cost?  Energy density?  Search the youtubes for nail-puncture videos of standard Lithium Ion cells and A123 Systems' batteries and you'll have a good comparison..

krisi
User Rank
CEO
Re: really?
krisi   10/7/2013 3:52:47 PM
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LOL Max

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