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DrFPGA
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Excellent!
DrFPGA   10/18/2013 10:42:30 AM
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Yep- these are some great insights into using the panel as a feature of your manufacturing and design methodology. Many parallels to combining multiple die types on a single wafer too!

zeeglen
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Re: Excellent!
zeeglen   10/18/2013 11:17:59 AM
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Some darn good ideas in this article!  Thanks for sharing them.

I especially like the silkscreened note to the assembler to not de-panelize, prevents a potential "gotcha".

TonyTib
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CEO
Rules different when using Proto PCB Fab
TonyTib   10/18/2013 12:48:53 PM
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Good ideas, if you're paying for whole panels.  However, if you're going through a prototype PCB house (Sierra Proto Express, Advanced Circuits, or any of the 100 others), they panelize it and you just get the PCB so none of these tricks work.

We love proto PCBs houses, because we can just buy what we need (or as many we we can get for the same price as what we need -- proto PCBs are like sheet metal parts: for small volumes the cost is all in the setup, so the cost difference between say buying 1 or buying 10 is minor), instead of ending up with a large volume of unused boards, which always happened in the past (when we had to buy ~100 boards).

antedeluvian
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Re: Rules different when using Proto PCB Fab
antedeluvian   10/18/2013 1:05:43 PM
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@TonyTib

However, if you're going through a prototype PCB house (Sierra Proto Express, Advanced Circuits, or any of the 100 others), they panelize it and you just get the PCB so none of these tricks work.

I would hope that if you were submitting your own panel that the board shop would treat it as a single board. I have no doubt that the board shop would further panelize the panel anyway. You just have to be able to persuade your layout tool to allow you to mix boards on the panel- it is then simply one PCB.

Also the test techniques described are actually on production panels.

 

I do hope that if you need them you can get the tips to work for you.

j_b_
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Cooling
j_b_   10/18/2013 1:55:30 PM
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The pricing of PCB manufacturing is sometimes a little obscure, but it was always my impression that one major part consists of the area the board takes on the panel ... including the unused area. It became a habit to use such areas as cooling "wings" for power chips that use copper areas as part of their cooling. I leave them with more or less full copper on both side and little solder areas. On the major board I leave adjacent lanes without screen. In the end the otherwise useless pieces of board get soldered vertically between these lanes and provide additional cooling at (almost) no additional cost.

 

TonyTib
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CEO
Re: Rules different when using Proto PCB Fab
TonyTib   10/18/2013 1:56:16 PM
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You could do a "board within a board", e.g. design say a matrix of small boards with external traces, but there are two potential problems:

1. You'll have to de-panelize it yourself after the testing is done

2. Some PCB Proto houses won't allow this or will charge extra on some of their services (e.g. a "flat-rate" service that charges the same for all PCBs up to a specified size)


Our PCBs are very low tech and large, so testing hasn't been an issue.

_hm
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CEO
Good idea but not practical
_hm   10/19/2013 5:23:56 AM
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It looks good if you are so concerend about saving $300 and delaying work. However, time to market for everyone is so great and no one wants to wait for even half a day. In general we pay premium for two three days delivery. I am not sure, this is practical in bigger organization.

 

 

antedeluvian
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Re: Good idea but not practical
antedeluvian   10/19/2013 11:14:11 AM
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_hm

It looks good if you are so concerend about saving $300 and delaying work.

We appear to wok in completely different markets. It's not $300, it's $300 per board. We produce probably more than 50 boards a year, but let's take that as a round number. Making each individually would cost $15K. If we spread it over 7 panels that works out to $5K6. Although we make quite a number of boards, we are a small company so the $10K saved is important.

And yes, we have the luxury of not being pressed to get a product to market ASAP most of the time. Because each of the engineers have at least 2-3 projects going on simultaneously (and I am NOT advocating this as a great way to work) the board delays are not normally an issue.

Sheetal.Pandey
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Re: Good idea but not practical
Sheetal.Pandey   10/19/2013 2:56:18 PM
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PCB majufacuturers are normally quite discplined. They also sometime deliver the boards in one week time.

_hm
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CEO
Re: Good idea but not practical
_hm   10/20/2013 9:25:59 AM
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Yes, I agree with you. But for us, sometime we ask next day 9:00 am delivery or if they make mistake in delivery, we ask them to send it in person or by taxi. Yes, it is expensive, but you must follow management instructions. I wish I get that much money for my test and measurement equipments or like that. But that is difficult.

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