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KB3001
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Exciting times indeed...
KB3001   10/31/2013 9:21:23 AM
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For the good of the consumers and industry, this increasingly competitive landscape is very good news indeed. It's about time Intel's near monopoly in the servers domain is challenged.

rick merritt
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
rick merritt   10/31/2013 9:54:46 AM
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A challenge to that near monopoly is still far ;-)

KB3001
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
KB3001   10/31/2013 9:59:53 AM
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I agree. In microservers, I think it's nearer than many people think, but beyond that, Intel's dominance is still there to stay for a good while. Still, it's a start and if that means reduced prices and better service, great!

alex_m1
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
alex_m1   10/31/2013 10:08:31 AM
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Rick , could you please link to those analists that think that next generation intel processor will beat ARM? it would be an interesting read.

rick merritt
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
rick merritt   10/31/2013 10:24:28 AM
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@Alex: Can't find him in my Rolodex, but an independent guy I met at an Avoton briefing who said he thought Broadwell will blow away foe ARM server crowd.

I'll see if Intel PR can track him down.

Wilco1
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
Wilco1   10/31/2013 1:23:32 PM
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Exiting times, yes, but It's easy for Intel's PR to make marketing claims just like they did with the previous Atom (and look how "good" it was in reality...). Note 2nd generation 3GHz X-Gene is 28nm and will be available mid-2014. If you look at today's devices then current Avoton at 22nm doesn't look all that great vs ECX-2000 at 28nm (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/28/calxeda_midway_launch/). Given 2014 will bring even faster and lower power 64-bit ARMs as well as TSMC 20nm, and the new entrants go after a multitude of markets which Intel doesn't have covered today, I'd say that Intel will have a hard time competing.

motors1234
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
motors1234   10/31/2013 3:41:00 PM
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I wasnt aware 20nm arm server parts were going to be available in 2014. have a link?

 

Wilco1
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
Wilco1   10/31/2013 6:08:22 PM
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I didn't say that 20nm server parts will be available in 2014 as I've not seen any announcements saying so. It's certainly possible, but the announced server chips in early/mid 2014 are all 28nm.

KB3001
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
KB3001   10/31/2013 6:34:23 PM
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Correct. BTW, I personally do not understand some people's obsession with the node used. The actual performance, energy effiency etc. depend on much more than that. Let us examine what really matters: performance per dollar spent, performance per Watt consumed, total cost, total power, typical performance, maintainability, diversity of supply etc. etc. of the full system. We are no longer in the era where a computer system could be summed up by one single number!

rick merritt
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
rick merritt   11/1/2013 5:18:08 PM
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@KB: Unfortunately I am getting few meaningful numbers from any system or chip vendors at this point.

Applied's CEO said XGene is dissipating 45W Max and has a 50% lower TCO than a Xeon E5, but there's a mystery of math in how they lump together all capital and operating costs to get that figure.

And no one is providing any benchmarks except Intel so far.

 

TarraTarra!
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
TarraTarra!   11/2/2013 2:30:17 AM
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Really? What benchmark has Intel provided? Their one slide from IDF showed obscure relative performance/watt comparison with no real numbers.

alex_m1
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
alex_m1   10/31/2013 6:38:07 PM
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@Rick: thanks.

docdivakar
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
docdivakar   10/31/2013 5:13:06 PM
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I don't see how lower power server chips based on ARM cores can replace (in the immediate future) Intel-based ones in these days where much of the computing & storage has already moved to the cloud. Computing bandwidth and latency (excluding the communication layer) are two criteria where Intel clearly leads.

Perhaps by mid to late 2014 we will see comparable ARM-based servers' performance but I remain skeptical.

MP Divakar

Lakshmi.Mandyam
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Re: Exciting times indeed...
Lakshmi.Mandyam   10/31/2013 3:34:44 PM
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Rick,

WIth all due respect. HP has talked about shipping servers 1H 2014 for production with ARM based server SoCs from Applied Micro (64bit), TI and Calxeda. Partners like AMD have announced that they will be shipping next year. We already have hyperscale players like Baidu deploying with Marvell's server solutions. We are already quite far down the long and winding road with the gate to deployment just a few steps away.

krisi
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walk in the park?
krisi   10/31/2013 1:50:30 PM
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we didn't really expect Intel to roll over and to give all their server business to ARM, didn't we?...it goes without saying that you have the work hard to win new biz and the incument will fight back with all possible means, price, technology and PR etc

rick merritt
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Re: walk in the park?
rick merritt   10/31/2013 3:29:46 PM
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ARM PR tells me the Dell engineering manager tells them his comment about "late 2014 or early 2015" was inteded to be about enterprise but that "cloud would go earlier."

I haven't heard anything directly from Dell so far.

TarraTarra!
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Re: walk in the park?
TarraTarra!   11/2/2013 2:33:34 AM
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Dell timelines should be an year behind HP and other OEMs. Dell is hardly a trend-setter in the server space. It has been over 2 years since HP announced moonshot and has servers shipping today. Dell has nothing to show yet.

luting
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Intel is not winner here
luting   11/1/2013 4:30:22 PM
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To me, it is always long shot for ARM to get into Intel dominant server business. But I don't think Intel will be winner either. Under pressue, Intel will be forced to come out low cost server chips to fend off Competition from ARM. This will hurt Intel Business overall with falling ASP. At end, winners are likely system Companies such as HP and Dell since they have better price negotiation power againt Intel, or end users to have access on low cost servers. Although it is hard for ARM to get into general purpose server market, I still believe ARM could be used by large service Companies such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft to build purpose build servers to address their own specific need.

rick merritt
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Re: Intel is not winner here
rick merritt   11/1/2013 5:15:48 PM
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@Luting: Excellent points.

I am not sure OEMs are really leveraging this opportunity to get back into more value-added system design. My observation is Dell and HP seem to be letting the chip makers do a fair amount of the board design and just creating passive backplane chassis for them to ride in. Hopefully, this won't be their missed opportunity.

As for Intel, it's actually the only company shipping microserver SoCs now, admittedly at lower ASPs than it is used to.

Gondalf
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Re: Intel is not winner here
Gondalf   11/1/2013 7:19:01 PM
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uummm strange post. It seems like all servers load can be accomodate with large clusters of tiny socks. Unfortunately, most of real world workloads are very sensitive to monothread performance. So yes, in this upcoming 10/15 percent o server world intel will lose a bit, still the bulk of server sold will remain an high ipc cpus territory.

Gondalf
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Re: Intel is not winner here
Gondalf   11/1/2013 7:19:02 PM
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uummm strange post. It seems like all servers load can be accomodate with large clusters of tiny socks. Unfortunately, most of real world workloads are very sensitive to monothread performance. So yes, in this upcoming 10/15 percent of server world intel will lose a bit asp, still the bulk of server sold will remain an high ipc cpus territory.

SMP
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Re: Intel is not winner here
SMP   11/2/2013 11:51:42 AM
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Most servers are i/o limited, not CPU limited unlike desktop PCs, so ARM server chips would be fine for the majority of servers and server farms.

Also note that most servers handle many requests per second, and so having multiple cores or multiple servers in a server farm fed by a round robin router works very well, again allowing use of more lower powered ARM servers, or lower powered ARM cores. Indeed far more so than with desktop computers. 

rick merritt
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Re: Intel is not winner here
rick merritt   11/4/2013 12:28:50 PM
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@SMP: I heard the same thing from Dell.

Many servers just need to keep filled a 1-10G Ethernet pipe on one side and a storage interface on the other, something that doesn't necessaril;y require a big Xeon.

TarraTarra!
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Re: Intel is not winner here
TarraTarra!   11/2/2013 2:37:00 AM
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Completely Agree. This is the reason the OEMs need the ARM players to be alive to keep Intel honest. Competion in the server space? How refreshing!



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