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Jason Cove
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The Future
Jason Cove   10/31/2013 9:29:35 AM
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rick merritt
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Ready, set, go...?
rick merritt   10/31/2013 10:04:01 AM
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The goal is to accelerate know-how in IoT and cyber-physical systems and get hands on experience dealing with the real issues this sector still holds.

rick merritt
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A visual
rick merritt   10/31/2013 10:21:54 AM
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Here's the NIST view of cyber-physical systems:

 



wilber_xbox
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Re: A visual
wilber_xbox   10/31/2013 11:13:51 AM
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This visual nicely summarizes the complexicity and oppotunities for the technology and business.

junko.yoshida
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Re: A visual
junko.yoshida   11/2/2013 8:00:05 AM
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I agree, Wilber. I had not seen this before, but this illustrates very nicely what coordination and interoperability need to be achieved.

chanj0
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Re: Ready, set, go...?
chanj0   10/31/2013 12:57:40 PM
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This is a great summary of the article. After 15 years of Internet, we have learned so many issues and are dealing with some of them. I'm sure there will be more issues as IoT really take off. Imagine a world of sensors everywhere, the potential issues/ concerns will be enormous.

KB3001
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Re: Ready, set, go...?
KB3001   10/31/2013 1:25:33 PM
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6LoWPAN?

Jonas Berge
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digitally networked intelligent sensors
Jonas Berge   11/2/2013 11:26:22 AM
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What I personally like about all these Internet of Things (IoT) discussions is that they all take for granted that all sensors will be digital, intelligent, and networked: wired or wireless. Today we are shockingly far away from using digital signals from the sensors. In the process industry, most sensors use a pure analog 4-20 mA signal. Some smart sensors use an analog 4-20 mA signal for the real-time measurement and a superimposed slow digital signal similar to telephone "caller ID" for sensor configuration, calibration, and diagnostics. Pure real-time digital communication for sensors and actuators (fieldbus) is gaining ground among leading companies in the energy business such as Shell, BP, Chevron, Saudi Aramco, and Reliance etc. By digitally networking more sensors; bus or wireless, they are making their plants more productive, reliable, energy efficient, and safer. Learn more here:

http://community.emerson.com/process/emerson-exchange/b/weblog/archive/2013/10/03/why-are-there-missing-measurements.aspx

Jonas Berge
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digitally networked intelligent sensors
Jonas Berge   11/2/2013 11:28:50 AM
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What I personally like about all these Internet of Things (IoT) discussions is that they all take for granted that all sensors will be digital, intelligent, and networked: wired or wireless. Today we are shockingly far away from using digital signals from the sensors. In the process industry, most sensors use a pure analog 4-20 mA signal. Some smart sensors use an analog 4-20 mA signal for the real-time measurement and a superimposed slow digital signal similar to telephone "caller ID" for sensor configuration, calibration, and diagnostics. Pure real-time digital communication for sensors and actuators (fieldbus) is gaining ground among leading companies in the energy business such as Shell, BP, Chevron, Saudi Aramco, and Reliance etc. By digitally networking more sensors; bus or wireless, they are making their plants more productive, reliable, energy efficient, and safer. Learn more here:

http://community.emerson.com/process/emerson-exchange/b/weblog/archive/2013/10/03/why-are-there-missing-measurements.aspx

Bert22306
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Re: digitally networked intelligent sensors
Bert22306   11/3/2013 6:11:22 PM
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"What I personally like about all these Internet of Things (IoT) discussions is that they all take for granted that all sensors will be digital, intelligent, and networked: wired or wireless."

Not so much "take for granted," but rather "is achievable, or has been achieved, in fact." Sensors will increasingly be designed with IP interface, I don't have much doubt on that. Otherwise, you buy or build appropriate interface cards, to convert whatever the sensor signals there are into a digital words or digital messages, and you build network nodes that house these interface cards. That's how it's done now.

Jonas Berge
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Re: digitally networked intelligent sensors
Jonas Berge   11/3/2013 8:06:32 PM
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You are right in that conversion from analog sensor signals into digital messages in converter (I/O nodes) is how it is done today, and the past few decades. However, to me this is not the Internet of Things (IoT).

Personally I believe the Internet of Things means that every 'thing' is digital, intelligent, and networked. That is, the sensor (thing) itself has digital signal, is intelligent, and networked. A sensor with digital communication signal does not need a converter node. A sensor with an analog signal wired to a converter node does not provide the same capability as a sensor with embedded digital communication and intelligence. IoT to me is about digital communication from the very "first meter" all the way from the sensor. This way you can use digital communication to configure the sensor and to access sensor diagnostics from a centralized location.

KB3001
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Excellent initiative
KB3001   10/31/2013 10:17:09 AM
We need to help set up multidisciplinary teams to harness IoT. I see this as the biggest challenge i.e. how to inspire medical doctors, biologists, economists, social entrepreneurs, not just engineers.

debraj_iot
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Re: Excellent initiative
debraj_iot   10/31/2013 1:18:35 PM
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That is so so true for IoT. IoT needs expertise and usage in all fields, including arts science engineering sociology. (just a side note: our site www.cythings.com cover multi-disciplinary applications and news on IoT. Please feel free to check it if interested. Thanks.)

mattscar2
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RF + JTAG?
mattscar2   10/31/2013 10:56:32 AM
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Choosing the communications protocol is a major issue. It occurs to me that many embedded devices already identify themselves using JTAG. Maybe a combination of JTAG and low-power wireless would help. After all, the circuitry is already there.

chanj0
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Re: RF + JTAG?
chanj0   10/31/2013 1:06:42 PM
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I'm pretty sure TCP/IP will be the chosen protocol. After all, TCP/IP is the foundation of Internet. The concerns of relatively large overhead can be reduced by various algorithm. I am pretty sure the increase of network bandwidth has already alleviated the overhead.

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 2:48:31 PM
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I agree TCP/IP will be sufficient...no need to re-invent the wheel

KB3001
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Re: RF + JTAG?
KB3001   10/31/2013 3:24:14 PM
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Post Gateway, sure, but Pre-Gateway, TCP-IP is an overkill!

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 4:13:34 PM
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I am not following...how would that work?...TCP/IP post gateway and something else prior to the gateway?

KB3001
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Re: RF + JTAG?
KB3001   10/31/2013 4:22:14 PM
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It is an overkill for things to connect to each other and the network using TCP/IP. It has to be a lightweight standard e.g. 6LoWPAN.

LarryM99
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Re: RF + JTAG?
LarryM99   10/31/2013 4:26:20 PM
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6LOWPAN is a very good choice for this, but it is part of the TCP/IP suite of standards. The advantage to it is that it can easily be mapped into a full IPv6 network, so it can be gatewayed into the wider Internet. That only fills out the bottom layers of the protocol stack, though. Application - level protocols will be necessary for real integration of these devices at the network level.

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 4:30:13 PM
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Larry, what is the advantage in using 6LOWPAN over plain TCP/IP? I am having hard time understanding why we need a different protocol stack for IoT. TCP/IP is like English lanuage for international talk, sure you can speak some other dialect but why? Kris

KB3001
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Re: RF + JTAG?
KB3001   10/31/2013 4:38:54 PM
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Low power, Krisi. It's lightweight by design: the header, packet size etc. are smaller. It was designed for low power i.e. IoT applications. It makes sense for battery-powered things.

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 4:49:16 PM
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thanx...how much smaller is it? TCP/IP packet is not that large

LarryM99
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Re: RF + JTAG?
LarryM99   10/31/2013 5:14:38 PM
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The optimization is actually in the packet size. It is IPv6, but the addressing is shorthanded through the use of a local address table. I believe they also do message compression. The idea is to get the full networking capability of IPv6 without the larger messaging overhead.

Bert22306
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Re: RF + JTAG?
Bert22306   10/31/2013 5:30:47 PM
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Krisi, this is IPv6 over IEEE 802.15.4, instead of over Ethernet. Read all about it.

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6775/?include_text=1

So yes, the comment that IoT would use IP is almost a given. Else, it wouldn't have been called *I*oT.

chanj0
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Re: RF + JTAG?
chanj0   10/31/2013 6:08:14 PM
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For sensor to send packet to the "gateway", 6LoWPAN, i.e. iP over IEEE802.15.4, makes sense. It saves time on building interconnected infrastructure. Once the packet reaches gateway, the packet will then be decompressed. Ultimatedly, an uncompressed IP packet will be sent to the cloud in whatever mechanism that is defined. For delay tolerant application, I highly suspect the transport layer will stay with TCP. Higher layer can be REST API or SOAP.

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 6:09:28 PM
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Thank you guys, I finally get it....6LoWPAN sounds fancy but it really is IPv6, just re-packaged for wireless area networks...kind back to my point of IPv6 being sufficient for IoT ;-)...Kris
 


KB3001
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Re: RF + JTAG?
KB3001   10/31/2013 6:24:01 PM
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One tenth!

krisi
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Re: RF + JTAG?
krisi   10/31/2013 6:35:47 PM
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Yes, 10:1 compression in best case...sounds it could be lower in practie though...from wiki

IPv6 requires the maximum transmission unit (MTU) to be at least 1280 Bytes. In contrast, IEEE 802.15.4's standard packet size is 127 octets. A maximum frame overhead of 25 octets spares 102 octets at the media access control layer. An optional but highly recommended security feature at the link layer poses an additional overhead. For example, 21 octets are consumed for AES-CCM-128 leaving only 81 octets for upper layers.

KB3001
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Re: RF + JTAG?
KB3001   10/31/2013 4:35:36 PM
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There is COAP for that, Larry.

PS. Yes, 6LoWPAN is a cut-down version of TCP/IP.

krisi
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no funding?
krisi   10/31/2013 1:48:14 PM
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and the goverment is not promsiing any funding? I am not clear how is this supposed to work then

KB3001
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Re: no funding?
KB3001   10/31/2013 2:41:55 PM
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Business sponsors, philanthropists etc. ,

Bert22306
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Doubt
Bert22306   10/31/2013 3:47:10 PM
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This also makes my eyes roll to the back of my head. My knee jerk reaction being, thank goodness that in the US, at least, innovation happens without "help" from politically motivated politicians.

I'll acknowledge that sometimes an external force providing "focus" is helpful, however the outcome of such "focus" is usually not very productive. Even if results are achieved.

The IoT (so-called), which already exists in truth, will continue to develop. Not because a politician spurs it along, but because it provides solutions to real needs. The White House does not need to concern itself that the electric light switches in my house are not all networked together. I'm sure it's possible to coerce me into building such a network, and then I can show it to grandma.

krisi
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Re: Doubt
krisi   10/31/2013 4:16:33 PM
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I agree Bert, this doesn't seem to me like a useful action...and without puting any money in nothing will happen anyways so maybe we should not worry too much...what will happen will be driven by business sense and market needs

docdivakar
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Re: Doubt
docdivakar   10/31/2013 5:20:57 PM
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Bert, I agree with you here with a caveat -perhaps Uncle Sam thinks that it can replicate the success it spawned with ARPANet project leading to the modern-day Internet. Such a premise in this context is largely misguided because IoT has progressed without any government initiatives.

IoT will proliferate because of necessity and not by the 'coolness' factor.

MP Divakar

AZskibum
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Re: Doubt
AZskibum   10/31/2013 8:40:58 PM
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Am I the only one who noticed that the deadline for these demonstration testbeds is April 2014? That's not very far out, especially when most companies have year end deadlines and priority commitments over the next couple months. Any IoT system that could make a good impression by next April had better be well along the development path already, or run the risk of being buggy or incomplete due to being rushed to meet some arbitrary government demonstration deadline.

If Uncle Sam thought the April 2014 date was that important, why couldn't he have made this announcement several months ago?

rick merritt
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Re: Doubt
rick merritt   11/1/2013 5:12:42 PM
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@AZskibum: Good point. a late 2014/early 2015 goal might have sparked more thoughtful work.

KB3001
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Re: Doubt
KB3001   11/2/2013 7:23:43 AM
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Playing the devil's advocate here, and what if this was done deliberately to show how quick innovation with real impact on our daily lives can be achieved with modern IoT technologies? PS. May be I am giving the government too much credit, but who knows...

rick merritt
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Re: Doubt
rick merritt   11/1/2013 5:11:31 PM
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@Doc D.  I suspect the White House effort is less to spark an Arpanet like IoT and more to help the private sector get focused on the promise and problems of IoT. China, the EU and other regions are ramping their own initiatives in IoT so there's a but of techno-geo-politics here and just plain desire to push things forward.

 

Anyone know anything about China's IoT effort, based I am told in Wuxi?



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