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Antony Anderson
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Re: Counter intuitive brake action necessary in a sudden acceleration incident?
Antony Anderson   11/1/2013 8:20:24 AM
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My understanding  of what Dr Barr is saying is something like this:

IF the driver already has their foot touching the brake

       AND IF a task death happens to occur

       AND IF the task death causes a UA

THEN the UA will continue for 30 seconds

      UNLESS the driver lifts their foot momentarily  off the brake pedal altogether,

             Thereby killing the UA and restoring control to the driver.



 

 

davidjohn_in235
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Rookie
Thanks for the article series
davidjohn_in235   11/1/2013 2:02:45 AM
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Thanks Junko for the detailed coverage. The analysis described in the transcript is very useful & educative. As an engineer who has worked on non-critical automotive code, the article series gave a whole new understanding of the challenges and process required to test & qualify a critical automotive system

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
Re: Counter intuitive brake action necessary in a sudden acceleration incident?
Bert22306   10/31/2013 7:13:11 PM
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Actually, on the contrary, this testimony sounds less damaging to me.

First, the brakes did work throughout task x death.

Second, the problem of power not being cut, when brakes were applied, only occurs if task x death occurs WHILE you are braking. Otherwise, it seems that braking did cut the power. Just that the driver neeeds to be awake enough to realize that speed is going up and up.

Third, it's not all that un-intuitive to pump the brakes if you feel they aren't doing the job. Just like you push again and again on the leveator button, if the eleveator doesn't come. This detail had already been explained, actually. But last time around, it was not clarified that death of task x only made the brake fail-safe incomplete if task x died while the brake pedal was pushed in.

krisi
User Rank
CEO
Re: Counter intuitive brake action necessary in a sudden acceleration incident?
krisi   10/31/2013 7:09:06 PM
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This is used to be a driving technique inslipery conditions before ABS was implemented

Antony Anderson
User Rank
Rookie
Counter intuitive brake action necessary in a sudden acceleration incident?
Antony Anderson   10/31/2013 6:51:39 PM
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"Q. So in other words, if you're driving down the road and you put your foot on the brake to slow down, for whatever reason, during that time period task-x is where it actually dies, the vehicle starts to accelerate.

You've got to actually back off the brake and try and catch it?

A. That's correct. Which is both counter intuitive because your car is zooming away and you have to let go of the brake. And it's also dangerous because as you let off the pressure of the brake, at least you were applying some mechanical pressure, but as you let off the car speeds up. And so that may increase the risk in the short term, at least, before this fail-safe would take effect."

This is absolutely amazing! Counter intuitive - I'll say so!

It is interesting to note however that many sudden accelerations seem to happen as the driver is pulling in gently to a parking space or pulling out of a parking space. Could it be that with very light braking the brake switch is giving a rather indeterminate signal to the ECU which is being misinterpreted? This needs teasing out more


junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Three-part series based on trial transcript
junko.yoshida   10/31/2013 6:50:51 PM
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Kris, I am glad you feel that way. This case, I think, has legs, since most consumers as of today still believe that Toyota case is an old story; it's finished with Toyota's recall of millions of vehicles. But another trial, just like this one (buildling the case on the software flaws), is about to start in Santa Ana, Calif. next week.

Again, this vehicle in the Oklahoma case, 2005 Camry, by the way, is NOT on Toyota's recall list.

krisi
User Rank
CEO
Re: Three-part series based on trial transcript
krisi   10/31/2013 6:46:34 PM
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thank you Junko for very comprehensive coverage...this has been an eye opening story for me...Kris

junko.yoshida
User Rank
Blogger
Three-part series based on trial transcript
junko.yoshida   10/31/2013 6:42:30 PM
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We certainly don't mean to be "All Toyota All the Time" news; but we wanted to make sure that our readers have the opportunity to see snippets of what went on in the court room of Bookout v Toyota in Oklahoma. We created an exclusive three-part series based on trial transcript. The story above is the last in the series. The two others include: 


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