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junko.yoshida
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community at its best
junko.yoshida   11/7/2013 9:08:42 AM
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There are a ton of social media networks and public forums out there on the Web -- where many of us hang out and casually throw in our two cents.

But there are no others like EE Times' forum.

Here's the proof.

We compiled hundreds of messages posted -- scattered all over the places -- to a series of stories we wrote on Toyota's unintended acceleration case most recently tried in Oklahoma. These messages are smart, thoughtful and informative. And educational.

As a reporter, I must confess that every day, I learn just as much from reading our community members' comments. If you need to find out what engineers, responsible for making design choices every day, actually think about Toyota's unintended acceleration case, you can find it all in here. (and a lot more that we didn't have space to bring over to this comilation)

And please, don't hesitate to weigh in.

 

 

Tom Mahon
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discussion among professional bodies?
Tom Mahon   11/7/2013 2:00:18 PM
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Do discusssion among engineering standards bodies ever happen?  Say, between IEEE and SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)?  As cars become computers on wheels, maybe it's time for such discussions.

junko.yoshida
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Re: discussion among professional bodies?
junko.yoshida   11/7/2013 2:01:39 PM
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That's something we definitely need to follow up, Tom!

_hm
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CEO
Time to market pressure, less time for QA and lack of test engineers
_hm   11/7/2013 7:35:55 PM
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Time to market pressure is very demanding driving most designer and supply chain people crazy. Even before QA getting final 1.0 version or less full version, product launch dates are fixed. QA has very little option but to sign-off product with few remarks.

Another aspect is that product needs lot many test engineers as compare to what they have now. As we did simultaneous engineering as a new concept, simltaneous test engineering should be new emerging branch.

 

DrFPGA
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What is covered in school these days
DrFPGA   11/8/2013 10:18:07 AM
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It has been a while since my programming class in college. Anyone know what classes cover about safety and reliability these days? Should be a required subject...

antedeluvian
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Re: discussion among professional bodies?
antedeluvian   11/8/2013 1:49:21 PM
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Tom

I was at a TI seminar yesterday which included a session on their Hercules micros and their SafeTI program. The Hercules processors are intended to address the safety market with dual processors executing in lock step along with error correcting memory and more. The presenter did imply that if this processsor had been used then the Toyota acceleration issue may have been avoided.

As cars become computers on wheels, maybe it's time for such discussions.

TI also briefly discussed the general safety standard IEC61508 and the Automotive one ISO 26262. So there are certainly standards and there must have been discussions behind them. I don't know about the Automotive one, but I have seen bits about IEC61508 and it does seem to cover all the current approaches that should be used to create safe equipment.

bbaudis021
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Rookie
Analogies with medical devices?
bbaudis021   11/8/2013 3:45:55 PM
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My conclusion is that the auto industry with regards to the computerization is following the road taken previously by the medical devices and aircraft industry.
   Following to the letter, meaning that they kill a critical mass of people until they are forced to adopt the quality control processes  adequate to tasks the software is given.

    For years they used a limited set of very specialized software developed for the basic engine control. There are fewer engine design entities than the automakers, and the software came even from a smaller pool of design outfits. So there were just few packages out there, very well tested.
    Then the innovation pace in automotive picked up. They added ABS to the mix (but this still usually is a dual-control system: foot-to-hydrolic + computer assist).
The situation started to unravel with stability-control.
    Then came multimedia, GPS, infotaiment  all done by people who never practised and frequently had no concept of safety-critical software design.
In other words we will have cars driven by software designed by the same people who do the APPS ...



jperlick
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Rookie
What happened at NASA?
jperlick   11/8/2013 5:26:43 PM
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Hmmm..NASA did a long and expensive study on the reliability of the Toyota throttle control and didn't find anything wrong!  Makes me wonder if NASA is no longer the bastion of high performance, high reliability HW/SW design.  How is it that a consultant can find the problem but NASA cannot? 

I am disappointed in NASA! 

 

esrnetw
User Rank
Rookie
Toyota Failure
esrnetw   11/8/2013 5:48:44 PM
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There has been a lot of ink used discussing the Toyota electronic throttle issue - however, no post so far has commented on the failure of Toyota to provide a kill button that kills the power to the system of everything else fails. It would seem that looking for a tow truck is much preferable to a runaway out of control vehicle with a panicked driver and pax!

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: What happened at NASA?
junko.yoshida   11/8/2013 6:08:04 PM
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To be fair to NASA, from what I understand it, they really didn't have as much time as Michael Barr did in looking into this problem. Besides, Barr said that he was able to build his work by picking up where NASA left off. So, NASA's work is not wasted. But at the same time, NASA also made it clear in its own report: "Absence of proof that ETCS-i has caused an unintended acceleration doesn't vindiate te system."

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