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Bert22306
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Rabble rouser
Bert22306   11/20/2013 9:02:58 PM
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Junko, you're SUCH a rabble rouser, asking about the Oklahoma case I mean.

Aside from that, I agree with what Kuroyanagi-san has to say about autonomous vehicles. The way I read his comment, he wasn't skeptical about the concept itself, but rather that it could become reality without this "holy trinity" of man, car, and traffic environment (aka infrastructure). Couldn't agree more. Also the bit about sharing the road with human drivers. All very good points, and we have hashed them out on here as well, in the past.

AZskibum
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CEO
Re: Rabble rouser
AZskibum   11/20/2013 9:11:29 PM
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Rabble rouser indeed!

daleste
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CEO
Re: Rabble rouser
daleste   11/20/2013 9:25:08 PM
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I'm sure it is a topic that he doesn't want to discuss and his lawyers probably told him not to.  As engineers, we have to build systems that have safe guards and fail safe conditions that will avoid issues that Toyota has seen.

from_Tokyo
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Rookie
fatalities versus demographics
from_Tokyo   11/21/2013 12:07:03 AM
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The article mentions changes in fatalities per age category. Don't forget that during the same period Japan's demographics changed substantially. From a statistics point of view would it maybe be more relevant to look at "fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants" per age category (although every fatality is one too many).

junko.yoshida
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Re: fatalities versus demographics
junko.yoshida   11/21/2013 7:00:59 AM
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@from-Tokyo, you are absolutely right.

At a time when Japan's population of senior citizens are growing so rapidly (all the while Japan's overall population is decreasing) , we should definitely take that into consideration.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/21/2013 7:06:14 AM
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@daleste, in all honesty, in a conference like this in Japan (where a lot of embedded systems engineers including automotive guys attend), I had expected a topic like "fail safe conditions" as you mentioned would rise to the top, or at least to be discussed. But it hasn't so far.

It's almost eerly no other speakers want to discuss --  at keast publicly -- Oklahoma case in Japan.  

daleste
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CEO
Re: Rabble rouser
daleste   11/21/2013 7:50:48 PM
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That is strange that there would not be a sentiment to fix the problem.  When I was working in automotive, we always had to perform an FMEA on our chip to help the automotive company to design in a fail safe or limp home mode for any failures that could occur in the system.  I hope Toyota is doing this internally if they are not bringing it up in conferences.

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/22/2013 3:12:58 PM
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@daleste, agreed. In an ideal world, we would like to see engineers from different companies comparing notes and sharing some ideas.

That may be happening more in a private setting, however.

Meanwhile, I attended a fascinating panel where people discussed automotive hacking issues. But again, nobody wanted to talk about the "real" hacking experiences. More on that later.

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/21/2013 6:56:39 AM
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Oh, come on! I am paid to ask questions about stuff people don't want to answer.

AZskibum
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CEO
Re: Rabble rouser
AZskibum   11/22/2013 2:46:21 AM
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After my rabble rouser comment, I almost said "I know you didn't really expect him to answer, but it's your job to ask!"

Sheetal.Pandey
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Manager
Re: Rabble rouser
Sheetal.Pandey   11/22/2013 8:39:42 AM
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"To achieve a goal of autonomous cars in 100%, you need a holy trinity of man, car, and traffic environment. All three need to work in harmony, and that's hard to accomplish 100%, especially when you need to drive a car under all weather and road conditions and you share a road with cars that are not autonomous"

So much agree. For autonomous cars to be successful there has to be the perfect condition of three factors listed above as we see in car racing video games. But in practical conditions its never perfect. When in country like Japan these things are not viable how about the rest of the world. I guess many places in Europe may work out for autonomous cars.

junko.yoshida
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Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/22/2013 3:09:42 PM
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Ha, ha! Exactly. Actually, after his keynote, I immediately left the autditorium (while thinking that he wouldn't probably say anything even if I asked him questions). But in an elevator, I had second thoughts. What am I, if I didn't ask him a question, after coming to Japan all the way from the US? I reminded myself of the rule number one for reporters: Never assume anything.

So, I took an elevator up, back to the auditorium, and cornered him.

 

 

Antony Anderson
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Rookie
Re: Rabble rouser
Antony Anderson   11/22/2013 8:11:53 PM
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Actually, after his keynote, I immediately left the auditorium ......But in an elevator, I had second thoughts.

Truly inspired second-thoughtfulness..... Evidently timed to perfection... Good for you Junko! It sounds from your description of his body language as if Mr Shigeru Kuroyanagi had a SEU (Single Event Upset) for which he was unprepared. It will be interesting to see what the ripple effect may be within Toyota.

Mr Kuroyanagi's  comment that  "I absolutely have no comments" should be noted. Here speaks a man with at least 30 years experience of automobile electronic development in Toyota ( His first US patent was USP 4841447 (June 20th 1989))  Every non-comment of his is clearly pregnant with meaning of some kind.

He may not have answered your question, but, by not answering, he may be telling us in code that a post-Bookout Toyota Motor Company will no longer be hiding behind the pedal error hypothesis or flying floormats or sticky pedals as explanations for sudden acceleration. We shall see...

 

 

 

 

junko.yoshida
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Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/22/2013 8:21:30 PM
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Wow, Anthony, great that you track down Mr. Kuroyanagi's patents. Sort of stuff I should have done. Good detective work. In other words, what you are inferring here is that he is no spring chicken. He knows the field inside and out. And yet, he is not able to talk because this thing is now just waaaaay to sensitive for anyone to make comments.

I agree. I thought his no comment spoke volume.

Parris Boyd
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Manager
Re: Rabble rouser
Parris Boyd   11/23/2013 11:26:14 AM
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Just wanna commend Junko Yoshida and EE Times for the FANTASTIC reporting regarding Toyota's problems with sudden unintended acceleration. SO refreshing to see a bit of bonafide journalism. RIGHT ON!!!

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/24/2013 10:02:16 AM
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@Parris Boyd, thank you for your kind words. 

We do strive to write things beyond what vendors want us to report...

Antony Anderson
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Rookie
Re: Rabble rouser
Antony Anderson   11/25/2013 9:49:29 AM
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Junko, you write:

"We do strive to write things beyond what vendors want us to report."

Here is the latest example of low speed "electronic disobedience" in a 2003 Camry:

Brockton crash leaves city man shaken Enterprise News.

According to the reporter, "Brockton police who investigated said the accident was not a result of operator error".

http://www.enterprisenews.com/topstories/x1069226453/Brockton-crash-leaves-city-man-shaken

 
 

 

 

 

 

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/26/2013 2:12:54 AM
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Antony, thanks for the headsup. Much appreciate it. It's clear that this thing is far from over...

junko.yoshida
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Blogger
Re: Rabble rouser
junko.yoshida   11/21/2013 6:55:32 AM
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Bert, I agree with you -- not about the rabble rouser bit, but about what Kuroyanagi-san said about autnomous car. He was rather candid, and straightforward. (That, of course, prompted me to check the boundry and pop the question!)

Antony Anderson
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Rookie
Re: Rabble rouser
Antony Anderson   11/21/2013 8:19:17 PM
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@Bert22306 You write:

"Junko, you're SUCH a rabble rouser, asking about the Oklahoma case I mean."

The Collins American English Dictionary defines a rabble rouser as:

"a person who tries to arouse people to anger, hatred, or violent action by appeals to emotions, prejudices, etc.; demagogue"

I fail to see how asking important questions of a conference speaker in a timely and courteous manner, as Junko clearly did, fits the above definition of rabble rouser. Or am I missing something?

 

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
Re: Rabble rouser
Bert22306   11/21/2013 8:25:57 PM
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Lighten up there, Antony. That was meant to tease her, as Frank seemed to have grasped immediately.

In common usage, "rabble rouser" means trouble maker, in a light-hearted way. At least, it does in the US.



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