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JeffL_2
User Rank
CEO
Re: The hard parts about developing with FPGAs
JeffL_2   1/8/2014 1:12:38 PM
Melody,

I want to apologize for the awful excesses to which you were exposed about which you were objecting on this blog. I was the first person to make a comment on getting started with FPGAs because it was a topic I was looking into myself, and I have certainly "done my share of embedded development" and specifically NOT using FPGAs (at least not at the current level of development) so I thought my "perspective" might possibly be useful in the discussion. It turned out that no one who was currently working at the state of the art in this field wanted to "waste their time with newbies and rookies" so they wouldn't even THINK of exchanging casual thoughts about the subject lest they reveal precious secrets about the internal workings of the "priesthood" to which they belong. You have to understand that in their world only the "blessed" are the ones to whom the arcane and mystical secrets of the inner workings of Vivado are revealed, and it is only the lesser of us mortals who are condemned to scratch out a subsistence existence with pathetic remnants of the art like ISE (whatever either of those are, I really couldn't care less). I would however point out about these "wizards" that I strongly feel that if the relationship in the following article by Martin Rowe is correct, they must certainly be working for free:

http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1320477

In deference to these folks and their expertise, to the extent it's possible I'll delete my previous posts on this subject, so in my absence we can see just how modest and unassuming these folks truly are. I apologize for thinking one of the "unanointed" like myself was worthy of commenting on this topic, so please accept my humble apologies for kicking off this blog. The calumny and viciousness you've observed would certainly not have occurred had it not been for my actions in the first place.

Best regards,

JeffL_2

Adam-Taylor
User Rank
Blogger
Re: What about the SoCs? Cyclone V OR Zynq
Adam-Taylor   1/8/2014 4:35:46 AM
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To be honest I find Vivado very easy to use, but then planahead / ISE is too.

The writing I have been doing over on Xcell Daily has focused more on the software side at the momenr so interupts, timers, watchdogs etc which is SDK based but it is important for people to understand how this all works and is intergrated trogether.

I have just emailed you something which I hope you will find useful

Garcia-Lasheras
User Rank
Blogger
Re: What about the SoCs? Cyclone V OR Zynq
Garcia-Lasheras   1/8/2014 4:26:29 AM
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@Adam: "this series of blogs will be reposted on EE Times starting this week I hope"

These are great news!! I started playing with the Zynq by following your blogs, and I really miss that online resource just now ;-)

I've read some of your tutorials on Xilinx daily blog, but I feel very comfortable with Xilinx standard design flow... what approach do you like best, Vivado or ISE??

Adam-Taylor
User Rank
Blogger
Re: What about the SoCs? Cyclone V OR Zynq
Adam-Taylor   1/8/2014 3:19:25 AM
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I have been writing on how to use the Zynq using the Planahead flow over on the now sadly defunct All Programmable Planet, this series of blogs will be reposted on EE Times starting this week I hope. They cover everything from getting it creating the project to adding peripherals, creating your own perihperal and adding a RTOS. I have also written a similar series for the Xilinx Xcell Journal starting with the January 2013 issue.

There is also a series of blogs over on Xcell daily blog that has focused upon using the Vivado flow. This again starts at project creation, adding perihperals, but has then looked at things like the interrupt structre, clocks and timers, bootloaders etc.

Part one starts here,

http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Xcell-Daily-Blog/Bringing-up-the-Avnet-MicroZed-with-Vivado/ba-p/362901

I hope to also be speaking about the Zynq at the forth coming Embedded Systems Conference held in San Jose in April.

If anyone is reading these I would appreciate any feedback

geminiz
User Rank
Rookie
Re: The hard parts about developing with FPGAs
geminiz   1/8/2014 2:05:31 AM
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hi anon, as a fellow FPGA design engineer who just happen to pass by, I have to say, why are you wasting your time arguing with obvious amateur hobbyist. I'd stop after realizing he was complaining about JTAG and listing Atmel as FPGA vendor (what is this, the 1990s??). 

FYI I worked for Xilinx, now works for a telecom equipment vendor as a FPGA engineeer. I know "a little bit" about FPGA.

David Ashton
User Rank
Blogger
Re: The hard parts about developing with FPGAs
David Ashton   1/7/2014 10:42:08 PM
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@Melody - it sounds like you are using the term "Gentlemen" loosely in this context?     And bad advice, if I may make so bold, when egos are involved beer is probably not a good idea.....

Melody Akins
User Rank
Rookie
Re: The hard parts about developing with FPGAs
Melody Akins   1/7/2014 10:03:27 PM
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Gentlemen (I assume  you are all male, due to the high testosterone level vibes :)

I am new to electronics as a serious hobby, and would appreciate it if, when things get stormy, post-wise, you would take the acrimony offline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to wade through 'my ego is bigger than your ego' posts.

Now, go have a beer and chill out!

Blessings,

Melody

betajet
User Rank
CEO
Re: FPGAs are a commodity
betajet   1/4/2014 2:31:50 PM
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Good comments, Alvie, but I'm wondering about your subject line: "FPGAs are a commodity".  According to Wikitionary, commodities are:
6. (marketing) Undifferentiated goods characterized by a low profit margin, as distinguished from branded products.

FPGA families each have their own strengths and quirks, making it hard to switch between vendors.  The vendor tools are quite different, each with their own steep learning curves, which is another barrier for switching FPGA families.  I don't know about the profit margins, but I suspect they're quite a bit higher than commodity MCUs.

In addition, FPGA design is still IMO regarded as a "black art", and many engineering organizations don't have in-house FPGA design capability.  One one sense this is good for FPGA consulants, but it does mean that FPGAs are not designed in as often as they might be, which is bad for FPGA consultants.  I sure hope they distribute magic wands and wizard hats at the upcoming EE Live! (formerly ESC) "FPGA boot camp".



Alvie
User Rank
Blogger
FPGA are a commodity
Alvie   1/3/2014 6:48:04 PM
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I really hope you all had a new years day, things got a bit out of control last year - nothing a nice bottle nof champagne would not fix. Now, back to the original post topic. I do software for a living. Embedded software, usually even BSP and other weird stuff most programmers never heard about. Many things to consider, like multicore, multi depth caches, odd MMU/MPU systems, CPU/Coprocessor bugs, bad documentation, really odd accelerators, so on. Tough most of the time, but that is our job - to hide all of the HW peculiarities to higher level enginneers and programmers, so they can focus on what they do best: implement their algorithms. And this is exactly where FPGA enters the show. Independently of implementing a softcore CPU on FPGA, or just have the FPGA implement accelerators (in a sense) and use external CPU, they do present an advantage over other, hardwired, architectures: 1) they are field reprogramable, so you can update them easily 2) they are relatively cheap 3) the design is faster than a CPU for specialized designs 4) they can be (some) partially reprogramable, and in runtime, which allows for efficient hw aceleration of different tasks 5) they are cool (not thermally cool, unfortunately :) ) If you read this closely, you can see that there is no definite answer to FPGA usage. All depends on your requirements, and your need of hw design update. I personally love them, but only advice their usage in specific scenarios. I cannot say the same as hobby! I love them, and halfway my second CPU/SoC design. Why? Because i can, and because I enjoy doing so. Side note for someone that said porting GNU tools is rather easy: do not believe them. Alvie

KarlS01
User Rank
Manager
Re: Where do you start?
KarlS01   12/30/2013 10:23:04 AM
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@sa_penguin  "@KarlS01: What - you see my firast steps into adding an FPGA to a circuit, and you want me to do the whole thing in a single [larger] FPGA? Ewww, and Errrk"

Obviously we cannot communicate Ewww, and Errrk.  Have fun adding an FPGA that does DMA, The DSP, and communicates with the CPU, all for free.

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