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Max The Magnificent
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Suggestions:
Max The Magnificent   1/21/2014 4:36:14 PM
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So I want to get the light from tri-colored LEDs shining into these tubes without damaging the integrity of the tube -- I have what I think is a really cunning idea -- but before I talk about thst, I'd love to hear other suggestions ... got any?

Rcurl
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Re: Suggestions:
Rcurl   1/21/2014 5:36:42 PM
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Nice find, Max!

Those will add a lot of charisma to the device!

I think some of those tubes may be mercury rectifiers.  If they are, we've got to come up with a high voltage source so you can get a nice blue-green glow out of them.  We don't want too much current, though, because we don't want to generate too much ultraviolet light - or even worse- X-rays.

As for the light bulbs- I have heard that some bulbs will act like a plasma globe when energized with high frequency, high voltage AC.

I'm thinking it might be difficult to properly illuminate the internal structure of the tubes with LEDs.  Have you considered small lasers, as used in laser pointers? They're easily available and pretty cheap. 

Max The Magnificent
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Max The Magnificent   1/21/2014 5:46:47 PM
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@Rcurl: Have you considered small lasers, as used in laser pointers? They're easily available and pretty cheap.

I'm a bit dubious about using lasers -- you never knwo what they are going to reflect off, and i don't want to take any chance of zapping someone in the eye...

 

David Ashton
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David Ashton   1/21/2014 7:09:15 PM
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Maybe lasers scanning over the tube structures - maybe in a criss-cross pattern so that they look like those 3d modelling programs?   I don't know how you could do that though - I think you can get disco laser projectors that do that??

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Suggestions:
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 9:08:40 AM
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@David: Maybe lasers scanning over the tube structures...

I'm reluctant to use lasers -- I can imagine them reflecting off something inside the tube and hitting someone in the eye -- the tri-colored LEDS are so much easier to use.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Suggestions:
Max The Magnificent   1/21/2014 5:49:20 PM
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@Rcurl: I'm thinking it might be difficult to properly illuminate the internal structure of the tubes with LEDs.

I have a cunning plan; indeed, a plan so cunning we could pin a tail on it and call it a weasle -- let me play with my class etching on the regular bulbs this evening (I'm not touching thise vacuum tubes until I'm 100% sure what I'm doing) and get back with you... watch this space...

Douglas442
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Re: Suggestions:
Douglas442   1/21/2014 8:35:14 PM
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@Max: "The only problem occurred when I turned this beauty over and discovered its $275 price tag."

$275?... Are they practicing for a move of their business to ebay? Well... regardless, that is a great collection, and will certainly make a spectacular addition to your project with any kind of lighting!

Sorry to hear about Mock Electronics closing, though. We used to have several surplus-electronics places right here in the Fresno area. Now they're all gone... and it's approaching the End of an Age.

 

@Rcurl: "we don't want to generate too much ultraviolet light - or even worse- X-rays."

If you want to worry about X-rays then just ask your dentist, on your next visit, if his equipment is all properly calibrated. Then ask him if you can borrow that lead-apron for use during the next lightning storm! 

 

 

Stargzer
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Re: Mock Electronics
Stargzer   1/23/2014 3:31:31 PM
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Douglass442:  "Sorry to hear about Mock Electronics closing, though."

Bettry Hurry, Max!  From their web site:

Big Going Out of Business Sale

25% off everything in the store

Open Saturdays 10 A.M. until 2 P.M.

in addition to regular hours

last shopping day January 31!

Bit of a drive for me, but on the other hand, a lot closer for me than David!

 

Douglas442
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Re: Mock Electronics
Douglas442   1/25/2014 6:14:33 AM
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@Stargzer:

"Bettry Hurry, Max! From their web site:

Big Going Out of Business Sale

25% off everything in the store

Open Saturdays 10 A.M. until 2 P.M.

in addition to regular hours

last shopping day January 31!"

 

Max:

Second that, on the above.

In particular, before you glue anything to glass - or otherwise make any modifications to the bases of these collector's items, you should take a look around to see if you can find any tube sockets to match them.

For myself, I would feel better about modifying the socket ( if that could provide useful effect ) as opposed to risking harm to the tubes.

Although... some of those old ceramic-based sockets could look almost ( though not quite ) as impressive as the tubes, themselves:

 

 ceramic transmitter tube socket

 

bodger
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Re: Suggestions:
bodger   1/21/2014 8:00:25 PM
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That one tube with the yellowish glass bits (looks like a WL327) is actually uranium glass (used to get the right coefficient of expansion to match the lead-in wires at high temperatures).  That glass will fluoresce a beautiful yellow-green when illuminated with UV light.  For that one, I'd include at least one UV LED.

 

Here's a pic of mine, illuminated by UV:

 

http://www.vitriol.com/images/tech/tubes/WL327.jpg

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Suggestions:
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 9:11:36 AM
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@Bodger: That one tube with the yellowish glass bits (looks like a WL327) is actually uranium glass (used to get the right coefficient of expansion to match the lead-in wires at high temperatures).  That glass will fluoresce a beautiful yellow-green when illuminated with UV light.  For that one, I'd include at least one UV LED. Here's a pic of mine, illuminated by UV: www.vitriol.com/images/tech/tubes/WL327.jpg

Ooooh -- that is so tasty!!! I didn't even know they made UV LEDs -- now I'll have to get one and try it out on my tube with the yellowish glass bits!!!

n4nln
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Beautiful bottles
n4nln   1/21/2014 11:38:25 PM
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perchance is that beautiful bottle in the shipping frame an RK-65 ?? I was a In a ham club as a young tyke that built a 75meter linear running a pair of RK-65s that could do the legal limit at half throttle. (A very conspicuous bolt in the front panel limited the rotation of the variac that throttled the plate supply.) Seeing that beautiful bottle started me geezin'.

Jean-Luc.Suchail
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Re: Beautiful bottles
Jean-Luc.Suchail   1/22/2014 2:07:58 AM
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I still have a radio receiver + tape + vinyl player from 1958 with tubes running nicely... As wellas a linear amplifier with QB5/1750 tube... still available on the market

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Beautiful bottles
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 11:20:42 AM
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@Jean-Luc: I still have a radio receiver + tape + vinyl player from 1958 with tubes running nicely...

I'm always keeping my eyes open for a nice wooden-cased vacuum-tube based radio receiver -- I remember how "rotund" the sound was when I was young ... there's something about a 12" speaker :-)

TonyTib
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Re: Beautiful bottles
TonyTib   1/22/2014 12:30:35 PM
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My brother has a 1950's Heathkit mono tube amplifier with custom speakers (we got it from free from the builder, and my brother inherited it after college).


The sound was great, and tubes had a beautiful glow.  I could check to see if it's still working....

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Beautiful bottles
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 1:35:37 PM
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@TonyTib: The sound was great, and tubes had a beautiful glow.  I could check to see if it's still working....

By some strange quirk of fate I was just talking to my chum Ivan here in the office saying that I need a mono amplifier to go in the Inamorata Prognostication Engine portion of the Prognostication Engine combo.

I'm planning on adding sound effects, so when you click a switch, for example, it might sound like there's clockwork machinery inside, and things rolling around and stuff happening.

I've got an Adafruit Wave Shield Kit on order -- I'm going to use it to drive an amplifier -- and use the amplifier to drive a nice 12" speaker -- I don't need huge volume, but I do want rich "rotund" sound.

A vacuum tube amplifier would so fit in with the overall theme is all I'm sayin' (LOL)

TonyTib
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I'm getting too old
TonyTib   1/23/2014 12:14:54 PM
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and forgetful -- that beautiful Heathkit has been out of our family for a while....

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Beautiful bottles
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 11:18:36 AM
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@n4nlm: perchance is that beautiful bottle in the shipping frame an RK-65 ??

The marking on the side says: "Type 450 TH-VT 108"

uwezi
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Light guides
uwezi   1/22/2014 7:53:26 AM
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When you glue the LEDs to the glass using transparent epoxy glue you will be able to create a light guide with matching index of refraction from the LED to the glass. This way you can get the light into the bulb without it reflecting off at the glass surface.

I have my own magic light bulb, which is a frosted, broken incandescent lit from behind with a green LED. The LED is attached to the glass with clean epoxy and the light appears to be coming from within the bulb - it almost looks like an X-ray image of the filament on an old fluorescent screen.

glowing broken incandescent lamp

Max The Magnificent
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Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 11:22:29 AM
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@uwezi: When you glue the LEDs to the glass using transparent epoxy glue you will be able to create a light guide with matching index of refraction from the LED to the glass. This way you can get the light into the bulb without it reflecting off at the glass surface.

Thsi looks great, but as you say it's frosted glass -- my problem is that my tubes are clear glass ... I'm still working on this...

uwezi
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Re: Light guides
uwezi   1/22/2014 11:58:54 AM
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The glass on the light bulb is frosted on the inside... I still believe that glueing the LEDs should give you a better coupling of the light into the tubes as well. If you direct the light beam from an external LED through air at an obligue angle towards the tube, much of the light will be scattered off because of reflection at the glass/air interface. Glueing the LED to the glass effectively extends the clear LED casing to the inside wall of the glass tube and takes out two inhomogeneous interfaces: LED/air and air/glass.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Light guides
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 12:03:05 PM
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@uwezi: I still believe that glueing the LEDs should give you a better coupling of the light into the tubes as well. If you direct the light beam from an external LED through air at an obligue angle towards the tube, much of the light will be scattered off because of reflection at the glass/air interface.

Another idea is to etch a band around the bottom of the tube and then put a ring of NeoPixels around -- I'm thinking the etch will get the light into the glass more effectively -- but I'm experimenting with some small, cheap old tubes first to see...

CWrobel0
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Re: Light guides
CWrobel0   1/23/2014 8:16:30 AM
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Another idea is to etch a band around the bottom of the tube and then put a ring of NeoPixels around -- I'm thinking the etch will get the light into the glass more effectively -- but I'm experimenting with some small, cheap old tubes first to see...

Try some frosted scotch tape for the experiment.  No damage to any of the tubes and you can approximate what it will look like on the actual tube.  I think.  :)

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Light guides
Max The Magnificent   1/23/2014 9:37:21 AM
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@Cwrobe: Try some frosted scotch tape for the experiment.  No damage to any of the tubes and you can approximate what it will look like on the actual tube.  I think.  :)

I will certainly try that as well -- good idea -- but I'm not sure that will give the same effect as actually etching into the glass (the tape will act as a diffuser, but the etching will scatter the light in a different way).

But don't worry -- I will practice on a big back of small, cheap, broken tubes that I have here in my office. I'm not doing anything to those big tubes until I'm 100% confident that I knwo what the result will be...

David Ashton
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Tasty Tubes
David Ashton   1/21/2014 7:05:15 PM
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Those old tubes are things of beauty indeed.  Did you take a pic of the $275 one - I'd be interested to see what kind of tube they can reasonably charge that much for in this day and age....??  Do you know what it was - maybe a travelling wave tube or something similar??

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Tasty Tubes
Max The Magnificent   1/22/2014 9:06:08 AM
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@David: Did you take a pic of the $275 one - I'd be interested to see what kind of tube they can reasonably charge that much for in this day and age....??


I didn't think to take a pic (I was still picking myself up off the floor) -- but if I manage to get back down again before they close the doors forever (at the end of this month) -- and if the tube is still there -- I'll take a pic for you. It really is a good one -- but I have to say that I am sooooo happy with the tubes I did get -- these are going to look INCREDIBLE on top of my Ultra-Macho Prognostication Engine

cookiejar
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Make rich project
cookiejar   1/22/2014 3:52:04 PM
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If you incorporated this idea into a high-end tube audio amplifier properly, you could charge a fortune and become rich.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Make rich project
Max The Magnificent   1/23/2014 9:32:29 AM
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@cookiejar: If you incorporated this idea into a high-end tube audio amplifier properly, you could charge a fortune and become rich.

Now you tell me! I should have patented this idea before I told you about it!!!

BeALert
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Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most.
BeALert   1/23/2014 2:05:52 AM
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At least you rememberd the ruler in the picture of the tubes.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most.
Max The Magnificent   1/23/2014 9:34:11 AM
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@BeAlter: At least you rememberd the ruler in the picture of the tubes...

I'm not as stupid as I look (well, I couldn't be, could I?) I'm glad I did remember, because it's only when you get a sense of scale that you realize just how cool these look.

Stargzer
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Tubes ...
Stargzer   1/23/2014 4:17:12 PM
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@Max:

According to the Mock Electronics site your big tube is a JAN 450-TH.  Doing some Binging I found it equivalent to a VT-108, or replaceable by a HK854H.  It's a triode transmitter, air cooled.  The specs on the HK458H say its a 450W plate dissipation at 125Mhz.  Another site uses a 450-TH in a Class A audio amp rated at 160W.

I've always fantasized about having a vehicle with two or four 10KW or better amps with speakers good to 25 to 30 KHz mounted on arms that I could deploy on each side of a car that's blasting its music so loud I can hear it through their closed windows and mine.  Pipe through it a little high-pitched opera or some English Lute Music (sorry, Max, I like the lute but not the high-pitched soprano), let it run while waiting for the stoplight to change, and presto: Revenge!

I always envision the other car crumbling into dust as if it were in a cartoon. 

And yes, I would take a bow to the standing ovation. ;- )

This link has some history on the history of the 450-TH tube.

Uh-oh:  have you placed your geiger counter near the tube? This link claims that the filament may have some thorium in the tungsten, and it may be radioactive.  Is that where you get your glowing personality?

 



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