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betajet
User Rank
CEO
Re: Gender, AND age discrimination
betajet   3/29/2014 9:53:16 AM
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I think there's a common factor here.  Basically, what a lot of companies are looking for are employees that have no outside interests whatsoever so they can spend every minute of their lives doing work for the company.  There's a Dilbert cartoon about this, from January 1998:
Wally asks new employee Rex how his personal life is going.  Rex answers "I don't have one...  that would be like stealing from the company."

Geeky young men are widely regarded as having no personal life whatsoever, so that makes them much more attractive as tech employees.  You just chain them to their desks (or share of a common table), feed them high-energy food, and watch them churn out code.

The big problem with middle-aged employees is not that they cost more, because they produce higher-quality results since they've learned the most common things that can go wrong and how to avoid them.  Somebody else paid for their mistakes.  No, IMO the problem with middle-aged employees is that they have problems with aging parents and difficult teenagers, and these distract them from the job.  It's much easier to hire young people who don't have these responsibilities so they can concentrate on the job.

Cartoonist Roz Chast has a poignant graphical essay about her own aging parents in a recent New Yorker magazine.  The essay is called "Can't we talk about something more pleasant?"  Along with the expense, time, and anxiety of caring for aging parents, Roz Chast brings up an interesting point.  One of the things she has to deal with is two lifetimes' worth of stuff that her parents have accumulated.  She says it gives you an entirely different view of stuff, where instead of seeing the latest great thing and thinking "Cool! I want one of those!" you instead think "someone is going to have to deal with this stuff some day".  It makes you a lousy consumer (see her recent cartoon "Not the target demographic").

People in their twenties and thirties can just go out and buy these things without considering the long run.  I would also think that it would be hard to be enthusiastic about designing these meaningless gewgaws, and you do want to have tech staff who are excited about designing "the next great thing" instead of middle-aged engineers who think "I like my job, I like my cow-orkers, but I would never buy this product".

junko.yoshida
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Gender, AND age discrimination
junko.yoshida   3/29/2014 12:47:50 AM
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@zeeglen, very good point. That's something we should definitely look into.

chanj0
User Rank
Manager
Re: Stereotype?
chanj0   3/28/2014 10:33:17 PM
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Indeed, it is unfortunate. This is exactly my point that even some women believe their mathematical skill wasn't as good when they were in high school. It's a myth to me.

When I was in school back in HK. I didn't think of it and, didn't notice there was any difference in analytical and mathematical skills between boy and girl. . In US, I learned from my friends that some of their friends started believing the myth as soon as they were in high school.

Conicidentially, I heard similar topic from KQED. I believe the world is changing.

http://www.kqed.org/news/story/2014/03/28/135398/imfs_lagarde_women_in_workforce_key_to_healthy_economies?source=npr&category=economy

zeeglen
User Rank
Blogger
Gender, AND age discrimination
zeeglen   3/28/2014 10:25:28 PM
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Good article.  Would be nice to see a similar study done for hiring managers favoring those under 50...or 40...

AZskibum
User Rank
CEO
Re: Stereotype?
AZskibum   3/28/2014 9:55:58 PM
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It is a disturbing finding that even female hiring managers held a bias against selecting female candidates.

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: No wonder
Susan Rambo   3/28/2014 8:22:16 PM
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Thanks, Daleste. I'm curious, for what jobs were you hiring? 

daleste
User Rank
CEO
Re: No wonder
daleste   3/28/2014 7:07:52 PM
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Susan, you should read the article.  In my experience, I disagree with the outcome of the study.  When I was in school, (okay, it was the stone age), there was only one woman in the EE dept.  By the time I was a senior, there were a few women freshmen.  It was a male dominated degree program.  Years later, when I was the hiring manager, there were many women applicants.  I don't know if the mix in school changed or if HR made it seem that way.  I hired about as many women as men.  I guess a big difference could be the culture of the company.  I am surprised that the study found that women hiring managers had the same bias towards men.  That definately goes against my experience.

Bert22306
User Rank
CEO
Re: I remain skeptical
Bert22306   3/28/2014 6:52:52 PM
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Maybe you're right, jiwhite. In the flurry of articles on this subject, I found this one to be more thought-provoking than most of them.

http://www.wbez.org/blogs/leah-pickett/2013-10/women-still-face-gender-bias-math-science-fields-108870

The article attempts to go to some deep-rooted reasons which sound credible.

jiwhite
User Rank
Rookie
Re: I remain skeptical
jiwhite   3/28/2014 6:31:34 PM
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The ploy in this study is a standard in social psychology research.  The task that the candidates are supposed to be differentiated on is intentionally meaningless and their backgrounds are disguised to be similar, leaving only appearance/gender as the statistically significant difference among the candidates.  If hiring managers were not biased by gender, then men and women should be chosen evenly.  However, men were twice as likely to be chosen as women, indicating that there is a significant gender bias in hiring.  Without more access to the description of the actual study, I can't personally judge if there may have been other biases at work, but the design of the study in general is valid.

chanj0
User Rank
Manager
Stereotype?
chanj0   3/28/2014 6:07:25 PM
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There may be hiring managers who favor male over female. There could be the % of female candidates is far less than the % of male candidates.

In the past, female was perceived less mathematically and scientifically competence that include how some women see themselves. It's unfortunate. They ended up lossing interest in mathematics and science that put them into a not so good position. However, there seems to be changes in the past few years. More young women are going into computer science. As electronic products and cloud services move towards better user experience. Women seem to play a better role. Their understanding of programming languages has put them into the same level playing field as the counterpart. I believe we will see a further shift in the near future.

The more women do a better today; the more women will benefit tomorrow. Stay competence! This applies to all young engineers.

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