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TonyTib
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Software Defined Peripherals
TonyTib   5/2/2014 5:06:17 PM
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As I've noted, software defined peripherals has been done before, by at least Scenix/Ubicomm (bankrupt), Parallax Propellar, and the XMOS chips.  If you wanted to stretch a bit, you could include TI's PRU (featured in the BeagleBone) and the Cyprus PSoC's (programmable analog peripherals).


Another comment: parallel programming is still hard, whether it's cooperating virtual Arduinos or cooperating PLC tasks (side story: I recently realized we had some deadlocks in some structured text PLC code involving a couple of separate cooperating programs.  It escaped dedication because it doesn't show up under normal circumstances...)

 

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/3/2014 5:16:15 AM
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@TonyTip "software defined peripherals has been done before"

Well, I never said that I invented virtual peripherals, for sure I didn't. But the point is, that the technology I'm using (System Hyper Pipelining) has many advantages, especially for the system architecture. One out of many potential features is, that it is very, very suitable for virtual peripherals. Only because virtual peripherals are known since the beginning, does that mean I should not optimize the flow for it so user can utilize it.

alex_m1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
alex_m1   5/3/2014 7:03:13 AM
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@Tobias:

But since hyper pipelining is a known technique , whose to say someone like XMOS isn't using it in their chips ? It certainly looks so from their low cost.

So i wonder , whose you're target customer, and what benefits over xmos do you offer him ? one that justify the drawbacks of this against xmos(more expensive, less mature tools, no virtual periperial libraries, much less value in learning this system for experience ) ?

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/3/2014 7:47:55 AM
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Hi Alex,

I'm not sure if SHP is a very, very known technique – otherwise it would be used more often, I guess. I will unroll the full technology concept of SHP in one of my next blogs on this site. So stay tuned.

So this project is more or less driven by some research fun and the enjoyment you have when analyzing the concept and when you are playing with it in real life. We will see where this all leads to and how it differs from other concepts (like the one you are referring to for instance).

If you like to go with some other concepts, go with it.

If you like to play with a new system architecture and providing suggestions how to improve it (just like some nerds do right now as I pen down these words) then feel welcome and help us by funding this project.

Cheers, Tobias

alex_m1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
alex_m1   5/3/2014 12:08:45 PM
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Hi Tobias,

Sorry i came a bit rude. That was not my intention. And best of luck with your project !

 

TonyTib
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
TonyTib   5/5/2014 12:33:47 PM
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@Tobias,

I'm not trying to be negative, just pointing out some other approaches (which might  their own good points - the Propeller, XMOS, and Ubicom definitely aren't cookie-cutter MCUs).

I do think you should consider a VAT-less option for non-EU customers.  In any case, I wish you well.

Crusty1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Crusty1   5/4/2014 4:57:20 AM
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Hi Tobias, Tony Tib; Parallax Propellar chip is good but it does require the user to learn yet another implimentation language, at best BST or assembler.

Your approach will at least build on an already large community of Arduino and Atmel knowledge base.

What Atmel chip do you use in your instances?

I will be looking at pledging for a board, as I like the idea of having all those Atmel chips running at the same time in one chip. 

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/4/2014 9:39:00 AM
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Hi Crusty,

thank you for your kind words.

The initial version is based on the Atmega 2560 (so the full AVR-8 instruction set).

But there are others in the pipe: (MSP430, ARM3,) OpenRISC 1200 and a self designed Cortex M3, but I would like to release the AVR-8 first. You know, this project is not set up to compete with some other guys, it is more about to demonstrate how you can make off-the-shelf CPUs (e.g. opencores.org) more efficient using SHP, that's it. But I guess you know that since our good old APP times.

Cheers, Tobias

Crusty1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Crusty1   5/4/2014 10:04:23 AM
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Hi Tobias: Now to an old timer like me, how many 6502 cores could you get running on the FPGA at one time.

It might make playing Elite unforgetable? (:-)LOL

Will be backing soon when the good lady wife is not looking at the bank balance.

Regards

Crusty

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/4/2014 10:41:26 AM
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@Crusty,

Well, at a certain point, it is not about how many cores, it is more about, how can you feed them with instructions. When the memory wall reduces the system performance, then you might be better of with less processors. This is what I want to demonstrate with this project as well, that SHP pushes the limitation we have from the memory wall a little bit.

I remember having seen the 6502 on opencores.org. If it turns out to be a stable core, it shouldn't be a big deal to apply SHP on it.

By the way, you might want to tell your good lady wife, that this board will make you really happy. She should have a considerable amount of interest to make you happy, doesn't she ?

Cheers, Tobias

suarezvictor
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Rookie
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
suarezvictor   5/8/2014 3:48:50 PM
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@Cuisty1 Propeller can be programmed in C/C++ with PropGCC

https://code.google.com/p/propgcc/

 

 

Crusty1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Crusty1   5/9/2014 6:50:12 AM
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@suarezvictor: Thanks for the link it's been some time since I looked at Propellor, I may have to dig my eval board out and see how it works side by side with Thomas's project when it gets fully funded on Indiegogo.

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/9/2014 7:04:38 AM
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@Crusty, that comparison would be just awesome.

Cheers, Tobias

Crusty1
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CEO
Re: Software Defined Peripherals
Crusty1   5/9/2014 7:41:05 AM
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@Tobias: Crusty, that comparison would be just awesome.

Tobias sorry about getting the wrong name.

I will pledge for the second level reward, when I get home next week, hopefully the good lady wife will have left some money in my pocket.

Glad to see the total is increasing.

I think Max should adopt your project deliverable, as a flag ship for his bodicious designs.

betajet
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What's in a name?
betajet   5/2/2014 6:14:15 PM
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I've never determined where the product name Arduino comes from, other than it's an Italian given name or surname.  However, it seems to me it could be derived from the Italian word arduo which means "difficult" or "arduous".  However, -ino is a diminutive suffix so arduino would mean "only a little difficult".

Following this reasoning, arduissimo would mean "really, really difficult".  Not a great marketing concept for an FPGA product IMO :-)

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: What's in a name?
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/3/2014 5:07:02 AM
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@betajet "I've never determined where the product name Arduino comes from"

Guess you have to make more research on where the name is really coming from ;-) Sometimes a letter makes a huge difference.

ewertz
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Manager
Re: What's in a name?
ewertz   5/5/2014 8:44:50 PM
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I've never determined where the product name Arduino comes from, other than it's an Italian given name or surname....

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arduino+name+origin

 

 

betajet
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Re: What's in a name?
betajet   5/5/2014 9:58:36 PM
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No need for Google.  I first looked at the most obvious places, the Arduino article at Wikipedia and Arduino's official web site http://arduino.cc/.  Oddly enough, neither explains the origin of the name.

I just realized it's probably at the Italian Wikipedia.  Sure enough:
Il nome della scheda deriva da quello di un bar di Ivrea (che richiama a sua volta il nome di Arduino d'Ivrea, Re d'Italia nel 1002) frequentato da alcuni dei fondatori del progetto.

Personally, I like my etymology better :-)

Bp_968
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Cost?
Bp_968   5/14/2014 12:30:43 AM
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It looks interesting but $100 is a fair bit to swallow for a hopped up Arduino board. What projects would you use this on that a cheaper board/MCU couldn't handle?

Tobias Strauch, EDAptix
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Re: Cost?
Tobias Strauch, EDAptix   5/14/2014 12:39:31 PM
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Hi Bp_968,

Arduino Users can use Virtual Peripherals

Sometimes you want to add additional sensors and actuators to your robot. These sensors and actuators have most of the time interfaces like SPI, I2C, etc.. With a standard controller, you might run out of peripherals for that. This is where you can use virtual peripherals to connect an almost unlimited number of additional sensors and actuators.

Arduino Users can program MultiCore

It is a lot of fun to program your project on a MultiCore environment. Play with it and maybe you have ideas how to improve it and how to improve the programability. The board offeres already 140 MIPS, which is a lot for such a small chip, but once the community agreed on the right system architecture, we can make an ASIC out of it.

FPGA Users ...

FPGA boards are more expensive than simple µC boards. I think that the LCFA board with its FPGA, HS-USB and half a Gig of memory is offered at a fair price. Not to forget that you don't need a download cable. Additional, a lot of configurations will follow (MSP430, OpenRisc1200 etc.), so this board will offer a lot of fun to FPGA nerds as well.

I hope this makes you a huge fan and a great baker of this project.

Cheers, Tobias

Crusty1
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CEO
Campaign
Crusty1   5/30/2014 12:24:54 PM
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Hi Max: Thought I would contact you to say that I have now backed Tobias on this project.

However I think it would be kind of cool if we could get the word out there that this is a realy good poroject.

I suspect becuase it is not Kickstarter people are put off. I just paid with PayPal just like I do with most Kickstarter projects.

As it runs multiple Arduino engines I can see a definite link up with the ScrewBlock.

Who else likes this project and has not yet signed up to it?

With yours and Duane's, Jack's and Tobias projects taking my spare cash, it definitley looks like Design West is out the window for this and next year again.

Ah well the hardware has a longer life span than the pints we would drink (:-)LOL

 



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