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antedeluvian
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My head hurts too...
antedeluvian   5/9/2014 11:27:04 AM
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Max

I watched the video. Colour me confused. I am not sure her analogies hold up and she completely ignores the laws of supply and demand. She also starts out with a presupposition of fair-play, which we all want, but is it realistic? ALso puts the blame on the FCC's inabilty to enforce its own rules.

Her argument that net neutratlity in Japan and Korea leaves me wondering if it is indeed the case. Here in Canada I hear the same argument but the pundits here say it is better in the US and Sweden.

I also read this blog from Windows Secrets (a great newsletter, I might add) "Net neutrality: What it is, why you should care" by Woody Leonhard, but I am still none the wiser.

I know I should care, but this is harder than placing an X on a ballot form and in addition not being in the US means that I don't really get a say anyway. Just like I don't get a say on the leader of the free world...

Duane Benson
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Re: My head hurts too...
Duane Benson   5/9/2014 11:53:28 AM
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It's difficult to make a judgment when there really isn't even agreement on the definition of "Net Neutrality." The fact that it's become quite politicized makes it even more of a challenge to determine who's telling what truth, when and where.

On the one side are the Left, who believe that government has absolutely no place in something like this; that it should be 100% up to the people, so market forces can determine value and pricing; keeping everything fair (by their definition of fair). On the other side are the Right, who believe that government has absolutely no place in something like this; that it should be 100% up to the people, so market forces can determine value and pricing; keeping everything fair (by their definition of fair). Somewhere in the middle are people who believe government regulation is needed to keep everything fair (by their definition of fair).

Today's Internet really is infrastructure more than it is a business. It's like the highway system, but with more on and off ramps. Treating it like that would probably lead to a decent and livable outcome.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 12:04:25 PM
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@Duane: ....a challenge to determine who's telling what truth, when and where.

Sad to relate, I've grown cynical in my old age -- if I hear a politician talking I assume he or she is lying -- or doesn't have a clue -- or both

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 11:56:54 AM
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The problem has several layers.  Imposing government controls won't fix it, but instead will just change it into a different problem.  In most communities in the US, Comcast, AT&T, Time Warner, or whatever ISP is available operate under contracts made with local governments.  Their pricing structure and amount of competition, if any, is set by the government.  They operate without any real competition or incentive to improve their service.

When is the last time your ISP came to you and said "what will it take to keep you as a customer?"  That's never happened to me or anyone else that I've heard of.

The cost of running copper or fiber to each and every home is so high that it makes it almost impossible for any other company to try to break this stranglehold.  What is needed is reliable, high bandwidth, and inexpensive wireless communications.  I'm not nevessarily promoting cellular, because the data rates and data limitations that currently exist are just too low for most homes.  But a wireless router on a pole down the street might solve the problem.  Multiple ISP's could offer the same service within any given neighborhood, creating competition, which brings with it the incentive to provide reliable and efficient service.

If we go another step and eliminate the customer contracts, then we have pressure from the customer to keep the service "fair" by threatening to leave at any moment.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 12:05:12 PM
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@jimwilliams: Imposing government controls won't fix it, but instead will just change it into a different problem.

That's the spirit -- look on the bright side LOL

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 12:07:12 PM
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@Jimwilliams: ...a wireless router on a pole down the street might solve the problem...

That's an interesting idea... but it woudl have to be a heck of a router to handle an entire street of streaming 4K2K videos and TV channels

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 1:34:07 PM
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@Max: That's where this community comes in.  We can do it!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 1:40:04 PM
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@jimwilliams57: Does the '57' in your name indicate that you were born in 1957? If so, that was a good year because that's when I decided to grace the world with my presence also :-)

Actually, I just realized that I was born in 1957 and I will be 57 this year (May 29 if you want to send me a case of beer LOL) -- 57 and 57 -- it's strange how numbers work out sometimes...

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 1:42:44 PM
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@Max: Yes, and I already turned 57 in Jan. 9.  So, I already drank the beer.

Just think... 57 Chevy Bel Aire, you, and me.  Now that was a great year!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 1:49:41 PM
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@jimwilliams: Just think... 57 Chevy Bel Aire, you, and me.  Now that was a great year!

We won't see its like again...

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 1:51:10 PM
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@jimwilliams: I already drank the beer.

Well, that's just mean! On the bright side, I'm still only 56 (for 20 more days), so you are MUCH older than me, grandad.

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 2:14:54 PM
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@Max I'm wondering how long we can keep this idle conversation going before someone realizes that we're way off topic.

 

So, to keep this on topic..... Internet.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 2:20:55 PM
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@jimwilliams: ...to keep this on topic..... Internet.

We never dreamt of the Internet back in 1957 (LOL)

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 2:24:42 PM
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@Max: We never dreamt of the Internet back in 1957

Well, maybe you didn't dream of the internet back in 1957, but I did.  In my dream I was in my crib and had just finished a nice bottle of milk.  Then there it was, a giant web covering the entire world.  I thought to myself, that's a world wide web.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 2:33:05 PM
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@jimwilliams: I thought to myself, that's a world wide web.

What you should have been thinking is "What on Earth did my mother put in this milk?"

perl_geek
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Re: My head hurts too...
perl_geek   5/9/2014 4:12:10 PM
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One man likely did dream of something like the Web back then; JCR Liklider. See his biography, "The Dream Machine"   https://www.librarything.com/work/2051

Nearly  all the developments that make up today's Net can be traced back through his students. It's almost enough to make one a conspiracy theorist.

You might like to take a look at this article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/09/net_neutrality_explained_and_how_to_get_a_better_internet/ for more information.

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 4:17:24 PM
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@perl_geek: See his biography, "The Dream Machine"

I've added The Dream Machine to my Amazon Wish List

betajet
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Re: My head hurts too...
betajet   5/9/2014 4:25:41 PM
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E. M. Forster describes something very much like the Internet in The Machine Stops (1909).  He also warns about people becoming too dependent on such an apparatus.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 4:33:08 PM
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@Betajet: He also warns about people becoming too dependent on such an apparatus.

I've been mulling over the idea for a blog on augmented reality -- this was going to be one of my points -- maybe this would also make a good topic for the Alumni Breakfast at EELive! 2015

PS The punched cards you gave me are sitting proudly on the bookselves in my office...

 

antedeluvian
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Re: My head hurts too...
antedeluvian   5/9/2014 2:43:27 PM
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Max, Jim

 57 and 57

I guess this is double-Heinz.

On my wife's 57th (39 for the 19th time) I found a Heinz bottle of something with a huge 57 emblazoned on the side and made it into a birthday card.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 3:46:06 PM
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@antedeluvian: ...On my wife's 57th (39 for the 19th time)...

I prefer to think of my forthcoming birthday as the 36th anniversary of my 21st birthday LOL

 

betajet
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Re: My head hurts too...
betajet   5/9/2014 4:34:28 PM
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Max wrote: I prefer to think of my forthcoming birthday as the 36th anniversary of my 21st birthday LOL

I switched to reporting my age in hexadecimal a while back.  That changes your 57 to 39.  When I hit 43, I wasn't sure hexadecimal was a good idea, so I had to think about it: "2B or not 2B, that was the question".  [ducks]

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 4:48:49 PM
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@betajet: I switched to reporting my age in hexadecimal a while back.  That changes your 57 to 39.

I like it!!!  That's how I'm going to bill my birthday in 20 days time -- it's going to be my 3916th birthday!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 4:49:47 PM
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@betajet: ...so I had to think about it: "2B or not 2B, that was the question".

I'm too young for all this LOL

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 9:34:13 PM
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@max I was very happy to call mine my 57th birthday. I'm proud to be a granddad and would never want to relive those previous years. Although I would love to get my hands on a functioning TI 990 minicomputer, the system that I cut my teeth on back in the early '80s.

David Ashton
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Re: My head hurts too...
David Ashton   5/10/2014 11:57:48 PM
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@Antedeluvian...on my wife's 40th I found a card that said on the front "So you're turning 40?  But you're not going to be cranky and grumpy and otherwise and snappy, are you?"  Inside it said "Of course you can!  Old people are like that!!"

If I hadn't bought her a nice flowery lovey-dovey card as well, I don't think I would be here now....

kfield
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Re: My head hurts too...
kfield   5/11/2014 7:18:46 AM
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My favorite card (which works equally for both genders) is for your 50th birthday: It says "Happy Colonoscopy!"

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/12/2014 9:21:04 AM
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@kfield: My favorite card (which works equally for both genders) is for your 50th birthday: It says "Happy Colonoscopy!"

And you wonder why they don't let you out very often LOL

kfield
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Re: My head hurts too...
kfield   5/12/2014 7:30:11 PM
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Spoilsport!!!

jimwilliams57
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Re: My head hurts too...
jimwilliams57   5/9/2014 10:12:22 PM
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@max Back to my original point... This company seems to be on the right track. http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/ICT-and-Services/building-wireless-communications-links.aspx

David Ashton
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Re: My head hurts too...
David Ashton   5/10/2014 7:13:26 AM
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Nice to see that Australia is in the vanguard of high speed wireless again. (Didn't someone from CSIRO invent Wifi?)

What a contrast with our government.  The previous mob had a "National Broadband Network" rolling out that would have seen a world class fibre to the home network for most people in built-up areas.   The current government is scaling this back to "fibre to the node" and using the crappy old copper wires for the last mile - giving speeds barely better than we have now.

I was recently in my old home of Zimbabwe - power cuts, no water, no streetlights.... but guess what they are doing?  Fibre to the home if you want it.  You gotta wonder about our politicians.....

Max The Magnificent
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Re: My head hurts too...
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 12:01:42 PM
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@Antedeluvian: ...but I am still none the wiser...

Thank goodness -- I thought it was just me who was confused about all of this.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: net neutrality
Max The Magnificent   5/9/2014 4:15:07 PM
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@Quintadad: Just to get back on topic, I really apppreciated the video.

I must admit I was very impressed with the video -- whether you agree with it or not, this is a fantastic vehicle to get a lot of information across in a very efficient way.

David Ashton
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Re: net neutrality
David Ashton   5/10/2014 11:16:11 PM
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@Max....it's an excellent video.  How an ISP cannot be classed as a telecomm carrier I don't know.  Seems the Australian Government does not have a monopoly on stupidity as I thought (not really, I'm not that dumb :-)  If they want to be classed as information services, let them be that and hit them as accessories to every child porn vendor and money-laundering scam.  They'll soon change their tune.

selinz
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Thank goodness I read this on a weekend
selinz   5/10/2014 11:18:41 PM
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Watching that video pulled me into the infinite time sink known as Vi Hart videos. The few that I were saw mathmatics based. Her voice at first convinced me that she was Myla Goldberg (author of the Bee Season and other novels) but it didn't take much "research" to quickly determine otherwise. OK, that was rambling. To the topic at hand, we certainly are throttled and I am convinced that Youtube is as throttled as anything. Not sure who is throttling, though. Is it Google or our ISP? It was interesting that as I was listening to the Vihart video, it stopped for a full 30 seconds. I happen to be the only one on line in our household... Mmmmm.... In fairness, I reduce my kiddies QOS on our router when someone is  being a bandwidth hogs.  I'll even throttle myself but it is at my own convenience... It's hard to blame Comcast, AT&T, and others for doing the same...



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