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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
fmotta   5/27/2014 11:21:43 AM
me3 said:Fmotta: yes, having a deep pocket but slow in innovation will indeed put you in danger. Deep pocket is not a license to steal. It is (still) the law, stupid. Have you ever thought of using that money to hire better engineers, in stead of trying to make stealing legal, with your expensive lawyers?

I don't know what those iPhones and samsungs do to your head. Maybe they are better than any of those old smokeable stuff came before them. Still, the talk of junking the founding fathers is kind of presumptuous. 

@me3: I speculate that I was either unclear or you hadn't read my posting or (the best option I can find...) you are creating your own variant of what I already stated.

My statement related to the use of leeches to gain an income rather than innovating seemed obvious to me to be a statement that hiring quality staff outside the business office is what generally creates innovation and hiring within the legal office can (at best) protect innovation (presuming good business and proper use of patents).

My statement regarding the founding fathers may be elaborated (toward further clarification)... have a look at just about any show/movie where someone is transported forward to the "present day" and you will find a trivial representation of the shock and fear and amazement over what can and is being done now.  Our founding fathers are little different than the average man of ~200 years ago... copying a document (at that time) meant a scribe or clerk laboring for hours/days (for example).  Just the process of patenting was time consuming!  Getting hot water, illuminating the space, traveling, conversing outside fo ear-shot, controlling devices across large spaces, creating a new innovation, ALL were the results of many many hours/days of labor.  I cannot see that there can be any representation that the founding fathers could even COMPREHEND the situation that we have today in principals much less in specific cases. 

I say that as a person who was actually around at the time when wrapping core memory was still in practice.  One of my favorite statements as I hold a microSD card with 64GB of storage space is "I remember when swallowing 512 bits would kill a person".  The transition was immense!  My 93 y/o friend who was a housewife and not exposed to tech is amazed every day I present her with a new idea even those ideas that are considered obsolete by current standards.

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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
opc10   5/24/2014 2:33:01 AM

I didn't know we were specifically talking about Electronics Hardware?

Odd? Maybe? Rant? Certainly! Reality? Absolutely

Regardless, my point stands in any industry where so called 'ideas' are perceived to be owned.

But I don't really care if no one wants to listen. I simply make a point about reality. It's pretty clear to even a layperson what has happened, and what will continue to happen.

My personal opinion is irelevant. As is yours. 

Just be smart. Nothing like the model built in the last Hundred or so years is going to work. Its not working now, and it's only going to get worse.

It's funny. The so called 'smart' succesful people who have for decades derided idealists by pulling out the 'get out of fantasy land and live in the real world, buddy..' line?

Well 'smart' people, here's the REAL world biting your fantasy land on the arse.

ps. If my son/daughter was looking at a career in Copyright/Intellectual Law, i'd strongly discourage it...it will crash as quickly as it has boomed. Yet another Sector that is built on a Fugazi...


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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
me3   5/24/2014 2:00:54 AM
OPC: what an odd rant. What I try to tell you is that the enforcement problems that faced the music industry do not exist in the electronics hardware industry. Here the industry is too highly consolidated for innovation. Patent law is one of the few tools that can change this. Nobody would sue a hoodie who makes $10M a year.

Fmotta: yes, having a deep pocket but slow in innovation will indeed put you in danger. Deep pocket is not a license to steal. It is (still) the law, stupid. Have you ever thought of using that money to hire better engineers, in stead of trying to make stealing legal, with your expensive lawyers?


I don't know what those iPhones and samsungs do to your head. Maybe they are better than any of those old smokeable stuff came before them. Still, the talk of junking the founding fathers is kind of presumptuous.  

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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
opc10   5/23/2014 10:29:00 PM
The notion that music downloaders are 'only' millions of teenagers on 15k a year is not true and kind of irrelevant.

That applied a few years ago, but in as little as a year or 2, NO ONE will pay for music, or film/TV/Media. Even now pretty much everyone i know does not pay for music. Factory workers, professionals, lawyers, etc. The notion its pimply teenagers hiding behind keyboards is yesterdays sterotype.

Regardless, these millions of 15k a year teenagers will in a few years be earning 50k, 100k, 1000k, They will be making decisions. And they will look at all this Copyright nonsense in a bemused fashion. They already do. 

It's not even a debate. It IS happening, and will continue to happen. As soon as something is invented, it will be copied. And no amount of litigation is going to stop it. It will just slow it down for a while.

You wanted a global economy? You needed it to thrive? Well sorry, you can't cherry pick and manipulate it to suit. Wanted to open up to China for cheaper products? and then squeal that you can't compete? etc etc

You take the good with the bad. And you work out a way to make your economy work, or will the gap will continue to reduce in the 'Super Power' rankings. America is already being displaced by the 'Global' economy.

Again, Innovate. Innovation is also about adapting to suit the conditions and change in public sentiment. You fight against that, you lose. Eventually.


From a personal perspective, the notion that CopyRight, Patents etc is there to protect the creators is false, corporate/govt bullshit propaganda. It has done nothing to spur on creativity. Its a long debate that could go for hours, but we all know deep down it was invented as a way for companies to make money. Pure and simple. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

The 'protect the creators' emotional line is as thin as air. The people are quickly seeing it as the propaganda that it is. They are only stupid whilst their information is filtered. Well the Internet/Social media is putting paid to that. And quickly. The manipulated media is losing its grip. REAL truths can now be accessed and spread freely. I'm amazed
(pleasantly) at the amount of people, young and old, who constantly come out with "Wow, i didnt realise they did this", "That's so wrong". etc etc

Without even knowing the details its pretty clear. Both sides of this patenting debate seem to be worried about their self interests. Understandable, but you still don't seem to be realising that, how can you make a model work with the reality of what is happening in the world, and will continue to happen? Litigation, Copyright Law, etc is NOT going to work. And its not my, or any pimply faced teenagers job to work it out for you...

Its taken a long, long time, but thank god its happening. My faith in humanity is being restored.


Regardless, doesn't matter what I, or any individual thinks. The public IS seeing it for what it is. And is speaking with their actions. REAL truth and fairness wins in the end. 

If you can come up with genuine, fair, equitable model, there's a chance. Keep going with false truths, and greed, you're gone. 


Choose wisely.









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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
fmotta   5/23/2014 5:37:35 PM
Generally, it is true... the deeper the pocket the more a leech/ambulance chaser will want to get his piece of the cash pie of the alleged infringer through the patent courts. 

If a small start up is perceived to be infringing and that startup is a threat to ANYONE then it may be strategic to kill the competition using the patent courts and leeches.  It is not just the depth of the pockets that is the sole point of consideration when determining if a leech will be set-upon an alleged infringer.  Sometimes it is just to kill competition by bleeding them through leeches for hire.


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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
me3   5/23/2014 2:44:04 PM
In music the downloaders are millions of kids in hoodies who makes $15k a year.

For patents, however, it is engineers ripping off inventors for their employers that can afford to pay hundreds of millions in damages. You bet you can find people who is willing to go after the infringers.

Nobody will sue a poor guy. Claiming patents hurting small businesses is pure baloney.

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Re: Patent reform? Experts say no
fmotta   5/23/2014 1:16:17 PM
The Innovation Act of 2013 as describe here (http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/2639) seems like it is merely requiring a minimal amount of due diligence on the part of the complaintant and not really something that will affect ANY change (other than possibly allowing legal clerks to exchange paper and a check-list of trivial prerequisites before the action is taken into courts.

It looks like a content-free/value-free bill that can be used to say that Congress (antipode of progress) has "reviewed patent-related issues" when someone asks more than something that will affect more than one lawyer publicizing a check-list on a legal document website for use in preparation for the case (regardless if it a patent troll or an actual infringement).


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Re: Patent reform? Experts say no
AZskibum   5/23/2014 11:47:16 AM
The NPEs ("patent trolls") got a lucky break yesterday. The Senate Judiciary Committee removed the Innovation Act of 2013 from its calendar. This was the so-called anti patent troll bill.

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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
opc10   5/23/2014 3:35:45 AM
Hi all, i'm not very familiar with Patent laws, but hate to cast doom and gloom, but i think it is all going the way of music, film, media, tv, etc.

To put it harshly, its a fugazi. Ideas are thin air. Like Music, film, etc it is an art form. And art is meant to be shared and enjoyed. No one 'owns' it.

The music industry fought the ridiculous, and fast becoming outdated, idea of copyright. They lost. Miserably.

Why? They were greedy on 2 counts.

They built a model based on thin air. Copyright.

They forced artists, consumers into a model of their choosing, with no other options. We'll copyright, dictate distribution, radio, etc.

And sure, it made them rich. It created huge industries built on a fugazi. Employed people, made a select few artists ridiculously rich. The size of which they didnt deserve. (Please don't retort with 'do you want them to do it for nothing'? Thats not what i said. And irellevant).

And when the public spoke, and basically said "stuff you, we're not paying for art, unless its genuine, we've had a chance to listen to see if we like it, and really we should only pay for live performances." . Right or wrong? Doesn't matter. That ship has sailed.

And what did the record companies do? Instead of realising their greedy ideas had run their course, they fought a losing battle. It was like watching a couple of bullies trying to fight the oncoming masses with paper swords.

So now they're gone (In their past form). Thank God. But the only real casualties are the employees in those industries. Harsh, but reality.

But when you build an industry on a house of cards, eventually it will come crashing down.

The pattern is repeating for film, and media.
Protecting Content! Protect Copyright. Protect the artists!
Please. It should be "protect our arses, because we know whats coming".

They will soon be morphed into a realistic, FAIR, and acceptable model for the public to consume.

Software, patents, etc will follow suit.

So, see the writing on the wall. Spend your money and energy on looking to the future. Innovate, don't legislate. You will perish if you don't.

Copying isn't theft, and it isn't piracy. Same with patents.

It's what we did for millennia until the invention of copyright, its an antiquated remnant of a censorship system from the sixteenth century.

It stifles creativity, sharing, collaboration. And promotes secrecy, mis-trust, crime.

And please don't shoot the messenger. It's the public that has spoken. In America, and around the world. It's a revolution of sorts. A kind of uprising, if you will, against the power and greed of many corporations and self interest bodies benefitting from outdated, greedy laws.

The public has pretty much deemed these laws of 'ownership' should not apply to thin air.

The 'on the street' evidence?

A few years ago, ppl used to be apologetic, make excuses, side step, etc when challenged if they 'download'. Now its not an issue. The moral discussions are nearly gone. The ship has well and truly sailed.
So don't sell the old 'you are hurting the artists/creators', or 'its theft' line.
The people don't buy it.

So don't blame me. Blame everyone. It IS going to happen,

Brace youselves...

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Re: Bad bad trolls, but you may owe your job to them
me3   5/22/2014 7:20:38 PM
I hope there are more people who put their work out for everyone to freely use. I don't know who is paying for their time, but it is a good thing. Just like you can practice Communism by giving away everything you have to those in need, but you can't demand others to do the same.

The founding fathers got us here. USA is the biggest success story in human history, so far. They understand people with our flaws, and designed a system that facilitated innovation and competition. They designed an exceptional country. I don't understand why so many of you want to merge into some "global norm". For those who want to do that, they can always go back to _____(fill in the blanks).

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