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Kinnar
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Intel will be having more chances of Winning
Kinnar   5/30/2014 10:07:58 AM
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Automotive manufacturers select which ever technology for their cars, ultimately Intel will be the winning element in terms of the electronics being used in the cars, and this is because of the readily available application ready modules available with them for Linux and Motherboards. And the car automation is highly focused on the running RTOS, Google is after it and has shown very good results then what remains is the hardware platform, so most of it will come from Intel. 

junko.yoshida
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
junko.yoshida   5/30/2014 11:09:06 AM
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Not so fast, Kinnar. While Intel does have potential, there are companies such as Freescale, TI, Infineon and NXP, which have been actually years ahead of Intel in this segment. I wouldn't write them off so quickly. 

And of course, there are others like Qualcomm and Nvidia also gunning for the same space.

Kinnar
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
Kinnar   5/30/2014 11:38:56 AM
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That way you are right, but at the same time it is only Intel who has the experience and ready stack of the Integration of the sub modules on a single board with their own processors including the support of the all the buses and operating systems. Yes we cannot say that it is not possible for other companies but Intel had ready stack of all the integration as they have because of their presence in Personal Computers Market. Yes but Intel will be surely be able to keep its active presence along with other Manufacturers like TI and Freescale.

Wilco1
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
Wilco1   5/30/2014 1:47:04 PM
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Kumar, simple question: how many Intel CPUs are used in a modern car? There are something like 20-50 CPUs in a car, but none of them are Intel CPUs. The fact that Intel happens to be dominant in the PC market does not imply that Intel will be successful in other markets. As proof for that, consider how little progress Intel has made in the mobile phone and tablet markets despite trying very hard over the last 6 years. The reason is that other CPUs are simply better than what Intel can make - the x86 ISA is not an advantage outside of Windows PCs, in fact it is a major obstacle.

Kinnar
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
Kinnar   5/30/2014 2:22:54 PM
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Again you are also right that as now there is not a single Intel processor in cars, instead there are 20 to 50 different individually functioning processors are there in side. But these are the present day cars they are not a self driver car. I am not a fan of Intel neither a promoter. When it comes about putting intelligence it immediately comes up to using all high-end Artificial Intelligence and Processing centric Signal Processing, ultimately it will require use of OS that supports porting of all possible algorithms available as on day. Now most of the algorithms are tested on Linux, and since Intel has good presence in this segment it appears in my opinion that Intel might get its place in cars now. I may be wrong in this my opinion.

wilber_xbox
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
wilber_xbox   5/31/2014 1:46:24 AM
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Until now most of the efforts of Intel to provide an integrated hardware-software platform had failed so it is hard to say how will IVI will deliver. But Intel forsure wants a pie of the market and keep collaboration at hand to improve its ties with most of the car OEMs.

Krutsch Robert Cristian
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Re: Intel will be having more chances of Winning
Krutsch Robert Cristian   6/16/2014 7:10:03 AM
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If it goes after Intel they will put a 100W platform in the car.. There are people outhere that do not get automotive what so ever but they insist of speaking about it. Autonomus driving is all about safety, Intel has no idea about safety and is not even willing to build safety relevant platforms. In my opinion they will enter and exit like they did with so many other things..

Navelpluis
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Who wants this?
Navelpluis   5/30/2014 11:30:24 AM
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I have seen many of these articles before. And I always ask myself: "Who wants this"?

For me personally, forget about it, at least for the coming 25 years. There are too many petrol-heads alongside the road, just like I am. Lots of people love the roaring sound of their cars and trucks... like I am one of them. Others love the shape of their car and the enormous abount of power that they can control (mostly), like I am one of them.

Today there was another reason to get my old 911 out of the garage and took it for a ride. Nobody is taking this fun away from me for as long as I can afford it. Be honest: it is the last bit of real freedom we have. Why would I choose to give this away???

Nobody asked the question if we want automated driving. The technology is great and very very interesting, but at the far end I don't believe many people want it.

What do you think?

Kinnar
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Re: Who wants this?
Kinnar   5/30/2014 2:30:15 PM
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@Navelpulis : You are talking about yourself and of liking interests as of yours. But there are many who want to get rid of daily driving. Further more you can have list of advantages of Autonomous Car, from below mentioned link, on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Potential_advantages 

Bert22306
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Re: Who wants this?
Bert22306   5/30/2014 3:10:10 PM
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I have seen many of these articles before. And I always ask myself: "Who wants this"?

People probably asked the same questions about cell phones, in the early days. Who wants to be bothered with phone calls (or by extension text messages) everywhere they go? Just about everyone does, apparently.

The other point is that governments are going to be mandating these new capabilities as "safety features." Already, the backwards-facing camera will become mandatory in the US in the next two years. You can expect a growing list of such innovations becoming the norm, as regulations make them compulsory.

y_sasaki
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Re: Who wants this?
y_sasaki   5/30/2014 7:05:29 PM
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If the objective to feel the power of machine and freedom of control, you will be right. However car is just a way of transportation for many people. If I have to drive 2 hours to commute in trafic jammed freeway in 30mph average speed every day, I rather want self-driving car so I can spend that 2 hours for more valuable use (including sleeping :-). It would be long way though, for self-driving technology become matured to be safe and reliable.

tb100
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Re: Who wants this?
tb100   5/30/2014 7:50:15 PM
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I have seen many of these articles before. And I always ask myself: "Who wants this"?

Yes, an opportunity to give my favorite quote!

I heard Steve Wozniak give a speech many years ago. He was working for HP at the time he created the first Apple computer design. He said that he tried, three times, to offer the computer to HP to sell. The told him "Our customers buy minicomputers. There's no market for this."

"They were right," said Steve, "There was no market for it...yet."

wilber_xbox
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Re: Who wants this?
wilber_xbox   5/31/2014 1:54:23 AM
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Its true that noone knows which way the tide will turn that's why comapanies need to keep investing in new technologies.

Kinnar
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Re: Who wants this?
Kinnar   5/31/2014 2:28:18 AM
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So, yes there are many angles and views for this new growing technique, I as well was in a kind of opinion years before when I heard of this initiative, but today when I see the results researchers and developers are getting because of technology it seems that this will really going to happen for positive outcome.

goafrit
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Re: Who wants this?
goafrit   5/31/2014 6:48:37 AM
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>> "They were right," said Steve, "There was no market for it...yet."

That was the mark of innovators. They create their own market. It is not a question that no one is using it, it is question of you imagining it and then creating it for the market. If the car firms do not change, TESLA and Google will put them out of business.

lucylee
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Re: Who wants this?
lucylee   5/31/2014 11:40:41 AM
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At the moment I learn to drive, after finishing school I would buy the car to go friv 1 | friv 2 | kiwzi

goafrit
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Re: Who wants this?
goafrit   6/4/2014 7:21:16 PM
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>> At the moment I learn to drive, after finishing school I would buy the car to go

It may be unnecessary to even buy then. The fusion of Google cars and Zipcar will make buying obsolete.

elizabethsimon
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Re: Who wants this?
elizabethsimon   6/4/2014 7:47:10 PM
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@goafrit It may be unnecessary to even buy then. The fusion of Google cars and Zipcar will make buying obsolete.


At least in areas with a reasonable epopulation denstity. I have a hard time imagining it if you live 2 miles out on a gravel road. I also suspect that it will be a while before the need for more specialized vechicles for towing or carrying large items will be covered.

 

goafrit
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Re: Who wants this?
goafrit   6/7/2014 8:23:11 AM
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>>  I have a hard time imagining it if you live 2 miles out on a gravel road. I also suspect that it will be a while before the need for more specialized vechicles for towing or carrying large items will be covered.

You are correct but in this age change happens so fast. Add it to government habit of stimulating consumption or buying pattern through regulation, we can expect this to happen fast.

prabhakar_deosthali
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re:
prabhakar_deosthali   5/31/2014 3:05:58 AM
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In my opinion, today's car electronics is a scattered approach where a multitude of independent modules have been implemented for various functions - Engine control, ABS, Climate control, Navigation, infotainment and so on.

 

For the car of the future, where we are talking about a totally autonomous driverless car, we need an integrated approach for all these functions and instead of those 50 or odd CPUs , we may opt for a powerful dual CPU kind of central complex to centrally monitor , manage and control all the car functions. And there , I think Intel will have an edge.

Denis.Giri
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re:
Denis.Giri   6/2/2014 3:15:04 AM
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I'm not sure about that. Most of the compute power required for ADAS & self-driving cars is environment analysis (vision algorithms & other such things)

Using a many-core approch for environment analysis (multi-threaded) and a medium-sized CPU for the decision part of the driving algorithm (single "big" thread) might give better perf/W and perf/mm² results.

 

Moreover, those 50-odd CPUs currently satisfy rigorous safety requirements, such as ISO26262 (which intel is just starting to look into. cf job offer on intel.com "We are excited to launch a new position at Intel, ISO 26262 Functional Safety Manager"). Intel is obviously far behind on these matters.

goafrit
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re:
goafrit   6/4/2014 7:24:48 PM
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>> "We are excited to launch a new position at Intel, ISO 26262 Functional Safety Manager"). Intel is obviously far behind on these matters.

I think Intel with their products in the space and Mars must have had those managers. It is possible they want to make some regulators happy with the new job title.

detmoon
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re: Vehicles will always have 20+ ECUs
detmoon   6/4/2014 3:04:33 PM
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We won't be turning back to a single control computer in a car anytime soon. Cars will always have 20-50 micros in them. One of the biggest reasons cars went to the multiple ECU arrangment was to reduce the weight and cost of the wiring harness. Going to a single ECU would bring back long thick heavy wiring harnesses. Having to run separate wires for every sensor and control signal back to a single control ECU is cost and weight prohibitive. Placing  little CPUs out near the sensors also improves measurements. I don't have to drive that analog signal back over 20 feet through an incredibly noisy electrical enviroment.

We will have a central control computer providing the automated driving functions. It will conect to the 20-50 modules already in the car to provide the control over a dedicated vehicle data bus. That bus currently is CAN. It will need to be upgraded to something else to get the thoughput needed for future.

Intel has the same problem here that they have in the battery powered markets. Their products draw way too much power. It's very hard to find an Intel CPU that can meet the Auto companies low current draw requirements.

goafrit
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re: Vehicles will always have 20+ ECUs
goafrit   6/4/2014 7:34:26 PM
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>>  One of the biggest reasons cars went to the multiple ECU arrangment was to reduce the weight and cost of the wiring harness.

NASA just invented a wireless system that we can use to wire every aspect of a car. Tesla is testing it. If that passes the regulatory watchdog, the cost of wiring is off. Wiring is one of the biggest cost elements in the wiring of autos, finding a way out will open more innovations in how cars are built.

boblespam
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embedded intel
boblespam   6/2/2014 5:16:33 AM
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Intel is not new to the the automotive business, they developped the 8051 embedded CPU. I implemented it in numerous automotive applications in the 90's (car radios and infotainment). It was a great CPU for that purpose, then it became too expensive compared to Freescale and others.

It's a pity that Intel killed this product line by not adding more integrated peripherals to it and not reducing significantly its price. Another point: the 8051 had few or no Flash/EEPROM on chip, we used it as an OTP microcontroller for production (flash only in the dev phase). We were not able to upgrade the embedded SW once the car was out of factory.

Today a good FLASH is mandatory on such controllers and FLASH technology for automotive is of prime importance (think reliability). See how Spansion acquired Fujitsu automotive microcontrollers division.

 

krisi
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CEO
Re: embedded intel
krisi   6/3/2014 11:13:02 PM
I suspect this is one of the markets that Intel is "we did that, went out, now in, later likely out, maybe in the future in again)....they did exactly similar entries and exits to so many markets in the past...make up your mind Intel!

goafrit
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Re: embedded intel
goafrit   6/4/2014 7:31:45 PM
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Intel yes exited many markets because they never got the margins they were getting in their microprocessor business from any other market. Now that ARM is giving them a good fight, they are hungry for anything.

goafrit
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Re: embedded intel
goafrit   6/4/2014 7:28:06 PM
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>> Today a good FLASH is mandatory on such controllers and FLASH technology for automotive is of prime importance (think reliability)

Yes, Internet of Things or Connected Electronics is certainly going to make this era the one for memory. Flash will be a huge business as memory will become a deal. At least in the consumer electronics where safety is not an issue, there are huge opportunities. In the automotive and other regulated areas, those that differentiate can command high margins.

Stuart2121
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INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!!
Stuart2121   6/4/2014 8:04:25 PM
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INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL

I invented a CPU cooler - 3 times better than previous best - better than water. Intel have major CPU cooling problems - "Intel's microprocessors were generating so much heat that they were melting" (iht.com) - try to talk to them - they send my communications to my competitor & will not talk to me

Winners of major 'Corporate Social Responsibility' awardS!!

Huh!!!! When did RICO get repealed?"

INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!!

BTW, I have the evidence - my competitor gave it to me.

BBTW, I am prepared to apologize to Intel if;

• They can show that the actions were those of a single individual in the company, acting outside corporate policy, and:

• They gain redress on my behalf.

Inventors - help your fellow inventors - share your experiences with companies - good and bad.

goafrit
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Re: INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!!
goafrit   6/7/2014 8:26:20 AM
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It is not a good way to think about Intel. Intel is one of the most innovative companies on earth. Inventors do trust them. Without Intel, you may not have Microsoft, Google etc. There is no evidence in your point. Intel is an iconic brand and will continue to lead its segment or better compete with others.

Stuart2121
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Re: INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!!
Stuart2121   6/7/2014 10:35:11 AM
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Quite happy for Intel to demonstrate that the facts are not as I present.

Why haven't they? Cat got their tongue? Thay have had 3 or 4 years to do so - that is how long I have been posting 'INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!' - to anywhere relevant, that doesn't delete it it out of 'deference' to bigbiz.

But I always get screenshots after posting, fer the judge -

BTW, which part of the cat is yours? i.e. Why does Intel need you to stick up for them; they're not usually backward in coming forward to speak their mind.

It appears that there is quite a bit you don't know about your dear Intel.

"It is not a good way to think about Intel." How can I think about, form my opinion about Intel, other than as a result of my interaction with them?

Intel may be 'one of the most innovative companies on earth', but I have more innovation than them.

goafrit
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Re: INVENTORS - DO NOT TRUST INTEL!!!
goafrit   6/9/2014 11:37:30 PM
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>> Intel may be 'one of the most innovative companies on earth', but I have more innovation than them.

No problem - I like to see their valuation. And cannot write them off in a hurry because they can afford to buy ARM if they think the heat is becomeing unbearable.



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