Breaking News
Comments
Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
Page 1 / 3   >   >>
splrf
User Rank
Rookie
Re: Correction - Top 10 US Electrical ...
splrf   7/2/2014 8:40:13 AM
NO RATINGS
As another non-US based reader I must admit that I am surprised by this, aspecially as I enjoy many articles of the very British mr. Maxfield here. And not to mention the EETimes subtext: "connecting the global electronics community".

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Undergrad?
Susan Rambo   6/11/2014 11:34:55 AM
NO RATINGS
Right. Unless everyone is forced too report salary and job details and you have access to that info, the data will be far from perfect. Maybe if data could be gleaned from tax returns, it would be somewhat accurate.

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Undergrad?
Susan Rambo   6/11/2014 1:44:01 AM
NO RATINGS
Right. Unless everyone is forced too report salary and job details and you have access to that info, the data will be far from perfect. Maybe if data could be gleaned from tax returns, it would be somewhat accurate.

Kevin Neilson
User Rank
Manager
Re: Undergrad?
Kevin Neilson   6/10/2014 10:41:44 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks; that's a lot of info.  The data sounds like it's self-reported by schools based on self-reported surveys, so there are a couple of layers of possible inaccuracy involved.  People who return the surveys may not be a cross-section and surveys probably aren't returned by the unemployed.  Then there is the whole correlation issue; just because I join a sorority of beautiful women doesn't mean I'll end up being a beautiful woman.  There is self-selection among the members.

A lot of law schools will hire recently-graduated students who can't find jobs to do menial work around campus.  This is purely to boost their numbers so they can say all of their graduates found jobs.  This really happens.  Therefore I don't trust the numbers reported by schools much at all.  They are pretty unethical.

-Kevin

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Undergrad?
Susan Rambo   6/10/2014 7:17:40 PM
NO RATINGS
Fogarty continues....

"Nerdwallet/scholar claims the same source of data as NACE – they poll schools individually for data from the "senior surveys" and "post graduation reports" – questionnaires the schools give or send to graduating students to get some picture of how well they do right after graduation. The Nerd surveys claim a response rate of 68% of schools they polled, which totaled more than 100 schools and 290 programs attended by more than 400,000 students.

That sounds good, but is still a small slice of the total 3,000 or so schools in the country, 500 of which produce engineers. The data is also a little sketchy; there is no consistent way to get the data from students and no way to cross-check it with employers, making it hard to verify numbers provided by students, hard to estimate how broad a sample each school is getting from each of its programs, and hard to be sure that the numbers provided reflect the experience of the huge percentage of schools that don't collect the data, according to Edwin Koc, the research chief at NACE, who is trying to put a standardized methodology together and get schools to follow it.
 
Variability by specialty:
What Koc says about CS/CE/EE: Engineers always been at the top of pay scales; highest-paying majors are the ones with the most specific technical skills. 4.5% of all bachelors' degrees are Engineering. CS has been rising steadily and is up to 3.5%. Classifying majors is tricky; no standard among schools. Stanford has no computer engineers – they're all listed under CS. At Princeton it's the opposite.

EE tends to be more hardware-focused. Software-focused skills have been the ones growing fastest, though not all are listed as CS rather than EE or CE or whatever.
Where there is a difference, and where the main electronics-design major is not EE, CE is focused on hardware (usually) and CS focuses more on software and networking (but not always).
 
Computer-engineer salaries are comfortably above every other specialty but Aerospace in this list of median salaries for various specialties. These are 2010 salaries as collected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics for all salaries in those specialties, not starting- or first-year salaries. (collected and reposted here: http://www.bestvalueschools.com/top-25-ranked-engineering-programs-with-the-best-return-on-investment/)
 
Computer Engineer: $98,810
Aerospace Engineer: $97,480
Chemical Engineer: $90,300
Electrical and Electronics Engineer: $87,180
Biomedical Engineer: $81,540
Environmental Engineer: $78,740
Mechanical Engineer: $78,160
Civil Engineer: $77,560
Industrial Engineer: $76,100
Agricultural Engineer: $71,090
 

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Undergrad?
Susan Rambo   6/10/2014 7:12:33 PM
NO RATINGS
Fogarty continues with this:

Detailed explanation:
Data sourcing:
The figures they asked about are from Nerdwallet/Scholar (names that seem more odd every time I think about them). One of the issues with them is that their 2013 survey numbers have a couple of anomalies that made it look as if they'd either changed methodology or had some problem with their surveys at least with some.
The two/three year averages were more consistent with all the other surveys. Different numbers and such, of course, but they didn't highlight "top" schools that didn't show up on surveys rating schools by either incoming students' test scores or graduates' starting salaries.  (E.g.: Montana Tech's School of Mines: $64,434, Colorado School of Mines: $63,739, Univ. Notre Dame $61,781) (one-year version for 2013: http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/nerdscholar/2013/engineering-computer-science-degrees/)
 
The numbers are listed as "schools with the highest reported salaries upon graduation."
There is this methodology note at the bottom:
Note that some schools do not report salary data
Salaries are 2-4 year averages for data available between 2010-2013
Here's their methodology page: http://www.nerdwallet.com/nerdscholar/grad_surveys/our-approach
 
Since Nerdwallet/Scholar mixed CS and engineering, I believe the salaries may be higher than most engineering salary estimates, in the same way the average is thrown off in the Nat. Assoc. of Colleges and Employers survey by their inclusion of Petroleum Engineering in the list, even though it is a major available through only one or two schools in the country and the salaries for Petroleum engineers is just short of $27,000 higher than the No. 2 specialty, which is Comp. Eng. ) http://naceweb.org/s01222014/top-paid-majors-salary-survey-engineering.aspx)


Even so, NACE estimates total, nationwide average starting salaries for Computer Engineering at $70,900, CS at $64,700 and EE/comm. Engineering at $63,000.

Continued.....

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Undergrad?
Susan Rambo   6/10/2014 7:07:27 PM
NO RATINGS
Here are some answers to your questions about the study from Kevin Fogarty, the writer of the story: "I did my best to correlate things consistently, but I was worried about the potential for data munge.  The numbers are not absolutely valid nationally and across all engineering specialties and schools, partly due to the way the data is collected, partly because of how it's packaged and presented, which is why I put in so many caveats and alternate data. However, they are the most accurate, most consistent numbers available, as far as I've been able to tell.
 
Numbers you asked about are correct as reported by Nerdwallet/Scholar, whose data comes from polls of graduating students taken by colleges. The table below includes data from approx. 100 schools per year and averages numbers from 2009 through 2012. Much of the reason the starting salaries are so high probably has to do with combining comp. sci with engineering, but there is a huge variation among various specialties, ($59.8K-$70.9K, with one outlier at $97K), according to the slightly more-methodologically open NACE,  which could also throw it off."

continued....

zeeglen
User Rank
Blogger
Can't Resist...
zeeglen   6/10/2014 7:00:03 PM
NO RATINGS
@hm How about including Great North Canada?

There was a time I worked in the Great White North along the shore of the Arctic Ocean not far from the little town of Tuktoyaktuk.  I bought a souvenir sweatshirt that was printed "University of Tuktoyaktuk", and then in larger font "TUK-U".

I loved that sweatshirt, then one day the ex wore it while painting a bedroom...

Susan Rambo
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Correction - Top 10 US Electrical ...
Susan Rambo   6/10/2014 6:40:30 PM
NO RATINGS
Good point. EE Times should cover all of North America, so we should include Canada and Mexico. I'm not sure if Canadian or Mexican schools show up in the reports our reporter looked at.

Page 1 / 3   >   >>


EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

Steve Wozniak Reacts to Latest iPhone
Max Maxfield
5 comments
Funnily enough, just a few days ago as I pen these words, I was chatting with my wife (Gina the Gorgeous) when she informed me that -- as a kid -- she had never played at making a ...

EDN Staff

11 Summer Vacation Spots for Engineers
EDN Staff
20 comments
This collection of places from technology history, museums, and modern marvels is a roadmap for an engineering adventure that will take you around the world. Here are just a few spots ...

Glen Chenier

Engineers Solve Analog/Digital Problem, Invent Creative Expletives
Glen Chenier
15 comments
- An analog engineer and a digital engineer join forces, use their respective skills, and pull a few bunnies out of a hat to troubleshoot a system with which they are completely ...

Larry Desjardin

Engineers Should Study Finance: 5 Reasons Why
Larry Desjardin
46 comments
I'm a big proponent of engineers learning financial basics. Why? Because engineers are making decisions all the time, in multiple ways. Having a good financial understanding guides these ...

Flash Poll
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)