Design Con 2015
Breaking News
Comments
Oldest First | Newest First | Threaded View
Page 1 / 5   >   >>
Max The Magnificent
User Rank
Blogger
What was it like?
Max The Magnificent   6/25/2014 6:05:58 PM
NO RATINGS
...Eventually, a junior member of the throng will timidly whisper, "Please tell us what it was like, o revered one."

And I'll respond -- "you get the beers in lad, and I will tell you a tale of such derring-do as will make your eyes water!" (LOL)

betajet
User Rank
CEO
What is Jazz?
betajet   6/25/2014 6:13:59 PM
NO RATINGS
This debate topic reminds me of the story I heard about a reporter who was interviewing Louis Armstrong and asked him "What is Jazz?"  His immortal reply: "Lady, if you don't know by now you'd better not mess with it."

David Ashton
User Rank
Blogger
Re: What was it like?
David Ashton   6/25/2014 6:19:43 PM
NO RATINGS
You're dreaming Max.  They're more likely to say "You old farts were so primitive!"

betajet
User Rank
CEO
Re: What was it like?
betajet   6/25/2014 7:06:50 PM
NO RATINGS
I heard this one from the great Irish comic Dave Allen (paraphrased from memory):

One evening, a junior member of a club was listening to the club's oldest member tell of his great adventures hunting lions in Africa.

Oldest member (with gestures): I saw the lion ahead in the tall grass, up wind.  I crawled through the grass on my hands and knees to get closer to get a better shot.  Suddenly the lion was right in front of me!  He stood up on his hind legs and went ROAAAAARRRRR!!!! [Oldest member waves hands wildly in air while roaring.]

Junior member (astonished): Good God, sir!  What happened?

Oldest Member (suddenly pensive): I fouled me britches.

Junior member: I'm not surprised, sir.

Oldest member: I don't mean then -- I mean just now when I went ROAAAAARRRRR!!!!

David Ashton
User Rank
Blogger
Re: What was it like?
David Ashton   6/25/2014 10:27:20 PM
NO RATINGS
@Betajet... Dave Allen was GREAT.  The antithesis of political correctness.  Haven't seen any for yonks - I'll see if any of his stuff is on youtube.

chanj0
User Rank
CEO
Is there such thing called Embedded System?
chanj0   6/26/2014 1:50:11 AM
NO RATINGS
Indeed it is difficult to define embedded system. Just like it is not easy to differentiate between CPU and MCU. Has 8051 ever considered as CPU? It has CPU core for sure. What about ARM? It is an embedded system. Oh! Really? I thought it is a CPU.

prabhakar_deosthali
User Rank
CEO
You mean Embedded Electronic systems ?
prabhakar_deosthali   6/26/2014 3:34:34 AM
NO RATINGS
This debate is surely  going to be interesting.  Having spent about 32 years working on embedded systems, I think the whole wolrd is full of kind of embedded systems.

Apart from the systems based upon electronics or a combination of elelctronics and some kind of computing machine ( micro controller, micro processor , SOC , FPGA, and what not) there are many Systems which can be called as embedded, though they do not contain any kind of electronics.

 

Just take our body - the outer function is see, hear, eat, speak and so on but to do this so many systems are internally working in our body and are being controlled by a very complex nervous system and the central controller - the brain. 

 

So a Human body can be termed as an Embedded system isn't it?

 

 

 

Sheepdoll
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Is there such thing called Embedded System?
Sheepdoll   6/26/2014 3:46:49 AM
NO RATINGS
Too bad I will be busy friday during the time of the broadcast.  (If it were an hour earlier like the normal friday chats then Max would get another Coconut.)

Regarding what is a "computer."  When my niece was learning to talk and count at about 3 or 4 years of age, she came into my room and counted the monitors on the desk.  She called out one two three for five 'puters." and asked me why I had so many.  I said the boxes which contained AVRs, NxP and ST Arm processors also had computers in them, that there were actually over 100 computers in my room.

Personally I have never made a distinction between CPU chips and computers.  Most of it is in the usage of the device.  An example.  The Atmel Tiny85 is similar to my first computer which was a S100 running the Sol Cuter Tape drive OS and Basic interpreter.  I think the Tiny25 has more SRAM at 2K.   Early Apple products were comparable.  These machines could support 64K,  few in the Homebrew computer club could afford much more than 4K, which was the main cost of early computing.

Dynamic refreshed memory changed this. With the trade off that Dynamic refresh was notoriously unreliable, so one spend time writing memory test code and rotating bit tests. 

To the point here.   If a mega328 (Arduino) has the same capability as say an Apple II.  Could an Apple II be considered an embedded controller.  I argue that yes it can.  My first job was with an early Apple dealer.  While I did sell Apple /// and Lisa computers, the bread and butter was the Apple II. 

Our clients and customers would connect Apple IIs to a plotter, or a typesetting machine like a Ludlow, or even to a loom that wove cloth.  Apple IIs were used as PLCs in the local industry replacing Relay logic. You could connect them to the security systems Radio Shack sold that used the house current to monitor the alarms. Woz Himself was the proponent of an early version of ioT, through his home automation proposals.  Another Steve (Ciarcia the third Steve) started a magazine about the subject.

I say that if the device has GPIO or WPIO (Wireless Protocol Input Output -- I just made it up.) then it can be considered an embedded system.

Conversely what is not an 'Embedded' System?  My own personal delineater is does it function like a glass teletype in front of an SQL database on big iron.  Big iron is something like the old IBM machines like the 1130 or the 360/370 and the other 'Accounting and Tabulating machines.'  Things that run offline and batch process data, with tabulated or printed results.  Not embedded.

Put another way that hopefully will make sense to other EETs is that if it collects data it is probably an embedded cpu.  If it does statistical or mathematical simulation then it is probably not embedded.  If the device is used to do accounting it is either a calculator, or some sort of 'Bill and advertisement' spamming device and is anything but embedded. 

Another touchstone is.  If it has firmware, then it is probably embedded. If it has microcode and a user definable abstract instruction set, it is not embedded.

 

David Ashton
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Is there such thing called Embedded System?
David Ashton   6/26/2014 4:39:58 AM
NO RATINGS
@Sheepdoll... "Too bad I will be busy friday during the time of the broadcast.  (If it were an hour earlier like the normal friday chats then Max would get another Coconut.)".      

If you offered him some Bacon he'd probably change it for you :-)

Ref the definitions.  Mine (which a lot of people seem to subscribe to) is that if it is in a device whose primary function is not computing, that's embedded.  So technically a PC running an X-ray machine (which you see quite often) qualifies as embedded.    An Apple II used as a computer would not be, but if you got it to run an industrial plant it would be.    But really we're talking MCU chips here.  So in the survey, I said everything was an embedded system except a blade server and tablet computer.   They are computers used as computers - everything else is running something else.

Lines up fairly closely with your definitions....but go ahead...shoot me down.... :-)

 

alex_m1
User Rank
CEO
Re: What was it like?
alex_m1   6/26/2014 4:57:01 AM
NO RATINGS
> part of EE Times history. In the years to come, this august event will be discussed in hallowed tones.

Max, will you be at the debate , muttering "my precious" and holding an arm mcu ?

Page 1 / 5   >   >>


Flash Poll
Top Comments of the Week
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

Are Today's Designs Bound by the Constraints of Yesteryear?
Max Maxfield
14 comments
As part of my ongoing Pedagogical and Phantasmagorical Inamorata Prognostication Engine project (try saying that 10 times quickly), I'm working with Jason Dueck from Instrument Meter ...

Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock

Jolt Awards: The Best Books
Jolt Judges and Andrew Binstock
1 Comment
As we do every year, Dr. Dobb's recognizes the best books of the last 12 months via the Jolt Awards -- our cycle of product awards given out every two months in each of six categories. No ...

Engineering Investigations

Air Conditioner Falls From Window, Still Works
Engineering Investigations
2 comments
It's autumn in New England. The leaves are turning to red, orange, and gold, my roses are in their second bloom, and it's time to remove the air conditioner from the window. On September ...

David Blaza

The Other Tesla
David Blaza
5 comments
I find myself going to Kickstarter and Indiegogo on a regular basis these days because they have become real innovation marketplaces. As far as I'm concerned, this is where a lot of cool ...