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Max The Magnificent
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Merry Christmas
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 1:16:33 PM
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Hi Steve -- this looks like an amazing project -- I hope one day to see it with my own eyes -- with regard to the links to interesting sites and videos, I have to say that I love the christmas tree one -- wow!

Steve Manley
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Re: Merry Christmas
Steve Manley   6/30/2014 5:03:57 PM
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@Max  I have to say that I love the christmas tree one -- wow!

After the RGB LED Cube, a Christmas tree similar to that one could be on the books.

antedeluvian
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Debounce
antedeluvian   6/30/2014 2:08:30 PM
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Steve

 In hindsight, I would look to use a better filter on the encoder outputs and do away with the chip.

 

A really good place to start with debounce is to read Jack Ganssle's series on the topic. They have been through several revisions do I may be pointing at some of the older stuff

http://www.ganssle.com/debouncing.htm

http://www.ganssle.com/debouncing-pt2.htm

http://www.eng.utah.edu/~cs5780/debouncing.pdf

http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/break-points/4024981/My-favorite-software-debouncers

Jack focuses on software, but there are other techniques. A pullup resistor with a capacitor works well (preferably followed by a schmitt trigger) for slow responses although you should be aware that when you close the switch a short spike of high current will flow through the switch. You can limit that with a small series resistor. A cross coupled NAND or NOR gate combination will work if you have a changeover switch. Also if you use a non-inverting buffer (like 2 x 74HC04 in series or a MC14050) and connect the output to the input by a 10K resistor and also use a changeover switch you will have a debounced output.

Other manufacturers also make debounce chips. Maxom does the MAX812 and several others. See this app note.

Micrel does this one.

And altough you are commited to the Arduino, I should mention that the PSoC3/4/5 has it as a built in fuction.

I seem to remember this being a topic of discussion on the Connecting Edge. Perhaps Martin can rescussitate it.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Debounce
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 2:24:00 PM
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@Antedeluvian @Steve: And altough you are commited to the Arduino, I should mention that the PSoC3/4/5 has it as a built in fuction.

I seem to recall that there is also a Neo-Pixel library available for the PSoC devices, but I don't know where you go to find it.

antedeluvian
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Hierarchical Menu Structure
antedeluvian   6/30/2014 2:23:58 PM
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Steve

A standard 16x2 LCD display with white text on a blue background, ordered through Amazon UK

At the outset this eeems like a simple thing to do, but take care. Changes in approach often may mean rewriting your driver from scratch. After working with a customer who chagend their mind frequently I created an approach to allow a systematic method to create hierarchical menus and how to display dynamic data within that.


I wrote it up in a Circuit Cellar article "hierarchical menus in embedded systems" published in issue #160, November 2003. Circuit Cellar's business model requires you to pay a small amount, and for articles of that age you have to download the whole magazine. Let just say that the code was written for the Rabbit micro, but is all in C and should be easily portable.

Steve Manley
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Re: Hierarchical Menu Structure
Steve Manley   6/30/2014 5:08:02 PM
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@Steve

hierarchical menus might be usefull if I use a display on my LED Cube project. This would be added much later on though. I need to get the cube built and the basis of some control circuitry going first.

Garcia-Lasheras
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Cool Housing!
Garcia-Lasheras   7/1/2014 8:15:41 AM
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@Steve: I love the way you have housed everything in the enclosure. Indeed, the control panel looks very professional -- this is far from being a trivial issue when working in a hobbyist prototype level.

Are you maybe thinking in adding some remote controlled capabilities? There are some Arduino shields that makes wireless TCP/IP connectivity an affordable functionality.

 

Steve Manley
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Re: Cool Housing!
Steve Manley   7/1/2014 11:59:10 AM
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@Garcia Are you maybe thinking in adding some remote controlled capabilities? There are some Arduino shields that makes wireless TCP/IP connectivity an affordable functionality.

This is not the first time someone has asked about a remote control option. In fact Prot-Pic who I source some of my components from liked my video and blog so much that have gone away to do something similar for the office shelving and control it from their network. Maybe they will share it with use.

It is fare to say that my system is a working prototype and there are many options I could adopt. To be honest, my hallway is a thoroughfare to every room in the house and it's nice to twiddle the knobs as we regularly pass buy. In fact I like the knobs better than buttons so right now I have no plans to introduce a remote control option. My focus right now is my 3D 8x8x8 RGB LED cube.

Adam-Taylor
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Inspiring
Adam-Taylor   6/30/2014 2:24:38 PM
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Having beeen using the neo pixels to demonstrate to people how to use the Zynq I have a few ideas of how to use these pixels on my new house and garden especially

 

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Max The Magnificent
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Re: Inspiring
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 2:39:07 PM
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@Adam: I have a few ideas of how to use these pixels on my new house...

Congratulations on your new house (when't the house-warming party -- are we all invited?)

Adam-Taylor
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Re: Inspiring
Adam-Taylor   6/30/2014 2:43:12 PM
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Max of course you are invited, it is going to be the party. 

These neo pixels are pretty amazing - they may find there way into one of our telescopes ;)

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Inspiring
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 2:57:42 PM
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@Adam: ...they may find there way into one of our telescopes...

Are you talking about a telescope intended for deployment in space?

Adam-Taylor
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Re: Inspiring
Adam-Taylor   6/30/2014 3:47:39 PM
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No we are also doing ground based astronomial telescopes. 

 

This being one of them http://j-pas.org/

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Inspiring
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 4:02:10 PM
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@Adam: No we are also doing ground based astronomial telescopes.

That's huge ... and you're only going to use one NeoPixel? Shame on you -- you can't have too many flashing LEDs -- people won't take you seriously if you only have one LED on a monster telescope (plus they won;t think they are getting their money's worth LOL)

Crusty1
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Bounce your way to enlightenment
Crusty1   6/30/2014 2:40:44 PM
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Hi Steve:

It sounds like you are going through quite a steep learning curve.

But the project and what you are producing look worth the effort.

Rotary encoders can be a pig to debounce, I usually do this in software, its almost a trade against filtering the input and missing clicks on the swich position, which can be annoying, especially with counting up and down.

I have not tried it yet but, I think a timer reset after each interrupt from each bounce and read the state of input pins when the timer is able to time out. This should take out the problem of switches getting worse on bounce as they get older.

As it is an Atmel chip are you using Pin Change interrupts?

Max can give you my contact info in England, if you want to discuss Atmel chips and software offline.

I think I am better at Micro's than FPGA's

 

 

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 2:56:36 PM
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@Crusty @Steve: As it is an Atmel chip are you using Pin Change interrupts?

Thinking about it, there are de-bounce functions in the Arduino library. Steve, do you have the Arduino Cookbook or the Arduino Workshop? (Both are recommended, but if you only get one, make it the Workshop). They cover this sort of thing.

Crusty1
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Crusty1   6/30/2014 3:08:28 PM
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@Max: Now there is something I agree with you on and that is the Arduino Workshop.

I like it because it has a lolt more than just Arduino.

I have it in e-book form, so it can reside on my bench laptop when I am forging the little chips to my will.

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 3:59:52 PM
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@Crusty: Now there is something I agree with you on and that is the Arduino Workshop.

It really is a great book -- in addition to fundamental concepts, there's all sorts of useful stuff in there, like connecting two Arduinos via I2C and having one be the master and the other be the slave (usiually the Arduino wants to be the master).

Crusty1
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Crusty1   6/30/2014 4:25:53 PM
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@Max: (usiually the Arduino wants to be the master). Don't we all want to be the master.

At he moment I have a OLED SDD1306 I2C display that works with my code in graphics and text mode and at another site works in graphics mode only with the same programme. If the other site use their code then the reverse happens here.  it's getting to the point where I will burn a chip and send to the remote site, to see if the dsplay they have is different.

Think calming thoughts, think calming thoughts!! AGHHHHH

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 4:33:53 PM
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@Crusty: Don't we all want to be the master.

I don't know -- I'm married -- I'm not allowed to make decisions on my own anymore :-)

Crusty1
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Crusty1   6/30/2014 4:43:27 PM
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@Max: I know the feeling Mrs Crusty is half Italian, marvelous cook and always wins the argument.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 4:46:28 PM
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@Crusty: I know the feeling Mrs Crusty is half Italian, marvelous cook and always wins the argument.

It's like they say -- the wife always gets the last word in an argument -- if the husband says anything after that, it's the start of a new argument LOL

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   6/30/2014 4:02:46 PM
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@Max @Crusty1 @Adam @Steve - Thanks all for all your feedback and sound advice. I have to say I wasn't expecting such a response. The Arduino Workshop sounds like a good investment so I'll go look at that for starters.

 @Crusty1

>> As it is an Atmel chip are you using Pin Change interrupts? 

I'm not sure exactly what your asking, but I take the 2 outputs of the rotary encoder and after filtering with capacitors and pull up resistors on each output, I then feed them into the debounce chip and the outputs of the debounce chip into an AND gate. The output of the AND gate is used to trigger the interrupt. I stay in the interrupt until the encoder reaches a full detent (4 clicks in one direction or the other). This then counts as +1 or -1 to change the mode. I know staying the interrupt is bad practice and my next attempt will be better. 

>> Max can give you my contact info in England, if you want to discuss Atmel chips and software offline.

I would be grateful for any advice you can give so I may just take you up on this offer. I do intend on using a rotary encoder on my current project (the 8x8x8 3D RGB LED Cube) but that implementation is some way off yet. I will need to tackle how I'm going to multiplex and implement software PWM on shift registers before I start working on different modes of operation.

Crusty1
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Crusty1   6/30/2014 4:41:06 PM
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@Steve: I would be grateful for any advice you can give so I may just take you up on this offer. I do intend on using a rotary encoder on my current project (the 8x8x8 3D RGB LED Cube) but that implementation is some way off yet. I will need to tackle how I'm going to multiplex and implement software PWM on shift registers before I start working on different modes of operation.


Steve I am working on both rotary encoded swirches and PWM at the moment.

AKA the Crusty Reflow oven MK1. PWM up and running looking to hive off the rotary encoder to an Atmel ATTiny  8 pin foot print chip with one interrup and one direction signal for each change seen.

Max please forward my contact details to Steve when you have a spare minute.

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   6/30/2014 4:59:28 PM
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@Crust1

>> Steve I am working on both rotary encoded swirches and PWM at the moment.

Definitely sounds like you and I should have a chat off line some time soon.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 5:01:59 PM
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@Steve @Crusty: Definitely sounds like you and I should have a chat off line some time soon.

I just sent you both an email introducing you to each other.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 4:41:20 PM
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@Steve: I do intend on using a rotary encoder on my current project

I do like the way you use this, but I think I'd be more tempted to use something like this RGB LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display from Adafruit -- note the buttons at the bottom -- you can use these as Up, Down, Left, Right, and Select/OK to implement a hierarchical menu system. It uses I2C you it only consumes 2 pins on your Arduino. I'm using one on my Inamorata Prognostication Engine project

 

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   6/30/2014 4:56:10 PM
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@Max

>> I do like the way you use this, but I think I'd be more tempted to use something like this RGB LCD Shield Kit w/ 16x2 Character Display from Adafruit -- note the buttons at the bottom -- you can use these as Up, Down, Left, Right, and Select/OK to implement a hierarchical menu system. It uses I2C you it only consumes 2 pins on your Arduino. I'm using one on myInamorata Prognostication Engine project

I do actually have one of those devices. but it doesn't do White text on Blue background which I happen to like the most.

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Max The Magnificent   6/30/2014 5:00:06 PM
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@Steve: ...it doesn't do White text on Blue background which I happen to like the most.

Damn LOL

antedeluvian
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
antedeluvian   7/1/2014 8:57:10 AM
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Steve

I asked this question of Max when he mentioned the 16x2 character display- is it configured as a write only memory?

To reinforce my stance I re-published my blog "Defensive Designing for Displays" which I hope you find interesting

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   7/1/2014 12:06:15 PM
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@Steve I asked this question of Max when he mentioned the 16x2 character display- is it configured as a write only memory?

I believe the cheap white on blue display 2x16 display I used conforms the the Hitachi standard so can be read from as well as written to. I have to say I didn't study this device in great detail as all I wanted to do was display some information so used the standard Arduino library for this device.

>> To reinforce my stance I re-published my blog "Defensive Designing for Displays" which I hope you find interesting

 

Your blog makes very interesting reading. I have certainly seen the display appear to hang during the breadboard stage but don't recall any issues with the current implementation. I have bookmarked your blog and will incorporate what you have recommended if and when I add a display to my 3D 8x8x8 RGB LED cube.

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   7/1/2014 12:06:16 PM
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@Steve I asked this question of Max when he mentioned the 16x2 character display- is it configured as a write only memory?

I believe the cheap white on blue display 2x16 display I used conforms the the Hitachi standard so can be read from as well as written to. I have to say I didn't study this device in great detail as all I wanted to do was display some information so used the standard Arduino library for this device.

>> To reinforce my stance I re-published my blog "Defensive Designing for Displays" which I hope you find interesting

 

Your blog makes very interesting reading. I have certainly seen the display appear to hang during the breadboard stage but don't recall any issues with the current implementation. I have bookmarked your blog and will incorporate what you have recommended if and when I add a display to my 3D 8x8x8 RGB LED cube.

engineers
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
engineers   8/1/2014 1:40:40 AM
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This is an amazing Concept....

Steve Manley
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Re: Bounce your way to enlightenment
Steve Manley   8/1/2014 2:04:43 AM
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@engineers: Thank you..



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