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zeeglen
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Tweak, then re-tweak
zeeglen   7/1/2014 5:49:40 PM
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Remember bandpass filters such as the IF strips in TV sets and the sweeep generators/scope setup needed to align them?  Even an AA5 AM radio had multiple back-and-forth retweaks to get the oscillator to match the dial markings and the RF front end to track the oscillator.  On a multi-band radio this was a real undertaking.

I once designed a product that had 7 tweaks - per channel.  There were 6 channels on the pcb =  42 tweaks altogether.  Fortunately they were not interactive.  I could tune one up in 20 minutes, the production techs took 2 hours.

MeasurementBlues
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Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 7:50:26 AM
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Bill,

What you describe is like tuning a guitar when you put in a new set of strings. When you remove the strings, the neck will relax. As you install new strings and tune them, they pull on the neck, each one adding force so you have to go back and re-tune 2-3 times. Then the strings stretch and you have to tune yet again.

Generally, it's best to reomve and replace one string at a time so the neck only relaxes a little.

Bill_Jaffa
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
Bill_Jaffa   7/2/2014 7:52:34 AM
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Sounds like a guitar needs a chiropractor! Seriously, though, is there a way to make the tuning sequence or guitar design so that it doesn't become an interative process?

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 8:12:04 AM
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@Bill, once the strings are stretched, you can tune them without interaction. that takes a day or two. It also depends on how you play. If you play a blues-style with lots of pulls and bends, the strings will go out of tune more rapidly than if you play a classical style.

rich.pell
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
rich.pell   7/2/2014 8:33:22 AM
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"Seriously, though, is there a way to make the tuning sequence or guitar design so that it doesn't become an interative process?"

They're working on it:

Peavey Auto-Tune guitar

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 10:20:18 AM
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@rich.pell

That's cheating! It does the tuning with DSP--even worse. OK, I admit that I use a tuner to tune my acoustic, which is also cheating. I really should learn to tune by ear. Well, I do, by listening to beats. that gets thr strings in tune with each other, but if the first string was sharp or flat, they re all sharp or flat but together.

rich.pell
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
rich.pell   7/2/2014 10:30:17 AM
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"That's cheating!"

No, it's technology.  :)

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 10:43:42 AM
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> "That's cheating!"
> No, it's technology.  :)

Cheating with technology, I say. Use your ears. Should we not learn how to add numbers and be totally dependent on calculators?

rich.pell
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
rich.pell   7/2/2014 10:58:00 AM
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"Should we not learn how to add numbers and be totally dependent on calculators?"

Knowing how to tune a guitar by ear and taking advantage of tools to speed the process are not mutually exclusive.  Do you ever use a calculator?

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 10:45:37 AM
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OK if you want to talk about cheating with technology, I do use a metronome iPhone app. Even traditional metronomes are technology, just mechanical.

elizabethsimon
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
elizabethsimon   7/2/2014 12:15:33 PM
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I haven't played guitar in years. One of the reasons I gave it up is because I have a hearing loss that made it very difficult for me to tune the high E. I could tell that it was out of tune but couldn't tell if it was sharp or flat. And this was long before the advent of electronic guitar tuning aids....

 

zeeglen
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
zeeglen   7/2/2014 9:04:37 AM
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@Measurement Blues Generally, it's best to reomve and replace one string at a time so the neck only relaxes a little.

Which is one of those little things the teach-yourself-to-play chord books don't tell you, has to be learned through trial and error.

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Like tuning a guitar
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 10:21:42 AM
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The only disadvantage of one string at a time is that with all strings off, you can do a better job wiping off finger grime.

Bill_Jaffa
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Bike maybe not so bad
Bill_Jaffa   7/2/2014 11:27:26 AM
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Geez, with all this to-and-fro re guitar tuning, I am starting to not feel so bad about the bike derailleur adjustment process!

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Bike maybe not so bad
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 12:40:19 PM
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Bill,

 

If I ever pull my 12-speed out of the basement, I'll bring it to you for a tune-up.

MeasurementBlues
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Re: Bike maybe not so bad
MeasurementBlues   7/2/2014 12:43:28 PM
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But really, interdependent tuning is not much different that tuning a feedback loop where the output affects the input, which affects the output, and so on.



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