Breaking News
Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
<<   <   Page 7 / 8   >   >>
User Rank
Safety is number one
chanj0   7/11/2014 3:00:52 PM
When the carmakers come forward to announce gitches in their car, there are at least 2 effects. Firstly, consumers will start building up concern on the latest and greatest technology that are introduced into the model. It may hurt the sales of the model for sometimes. Secondly, the honesty proves to the public that the automaker value the importance of safety.

As the industry moving towards "intelligence" - smart car, smart city, smart everything, electronics and software become a crucial component. There will more models of car that will be equipped with different kind of electronic system in the coming years. On the other hands, there seems to be no bug free software. Question is how the automakers be able to put the process together better to identify the potential bug earlier and what they can do as a precaution to mitigate any bugs that slip through the system test. Similarly, shall the safety test be revised and improved in the government side?

User Rank
LarryM99   7/11/2014 2:09:00 PM
I was very interested in this article, given that I drive my Honda Insight pretty much every day. It sounds like there is a good chance that it will also be seeing a recall at some point.

That being said, I can't say that I have ever experienced anything like this. I have noticed an anomaly in the transmission - under very specific circumstances it gets stuck in "first" gear. The quotes are there because the car actually has a continuously-variable transmission. I learned very quickly to shift when that happens, and it drops into the correct range.

Does this recall mean that I should not drive the car? I already have close to 100,000 miles on it. The point that was made by others regarding relative risk is one that I second wholeheartedly. People drivers do random stupid things. Computer drivers may also do random bad things, but the probability of them happening is orders of magnitude lower. We evaluate the risk as being higher because we fear the lack of control involved.

Larry M.

Antony Anderson
User Rank
Re: Required driver's reaction
Antony Anderson   7/11/2014 11:32:45 AM
Your suggestion is useful:  forewarned is forearmed. My  recent article on Sudden Acceleration in  IEEE ACCESS, downloadable as a PDF file,  PART V  sets out to answer the question: "What practical measures might either minimise the risk of sudden acceleration incidents occurring or reduce their severity if they should occur?"

I suggest that drivers should have the Cold Charging Ampere (CCA)  rating of their vehicle's battery measured regularly. If it falls too far from the rated value, they should replace the battery with a good quality battery of the same or higher CCA rating.  A battery in good condition and fully charged will minimise  sudden  voltage dips when heavy current loads come on and therefore will minimise the magnitude of any glitches that might upset the sensitive vehicle electronics.  I also suggest changing brake fluid regularly because this keeps the moisture content low and maintains the boiling point at a sufficiently high temperature to avoid the formation of vapour locks. This would give the driver faced with a SA incident a better chance of bringing the vehicle under control by braking. Drivers should not pump the brakes because they will lose vacuum assist very quickly.

I also refer to the recommended consensus method of dealing  with sudden acceleration  namely:

"Put the car in neutral. No matter the RPMs of an engine, a car cannot accelerate without being in gear. If putting the car in neutral fails, shut off the engine (NOTE, shutting off the engine while a car is moving can be dangerous, as you will lose power-steering and brake-assist.... this method should be a last resort only). Once you have the car under control, shift it to park and turn off the engine. This should clear the fault. In many cases of sudden acceleration, the brakes alone are not enough to stop a car at wide open throttle. As a result, shifting to neutral is always the best option."

In my opinion, this advice, or something similar, should be provided in the owner's manual.

I also suggest in my paper (1) that learner drivers should be informed about the potential risks of sudden acceleration and should be trained how to react (2) Pedestrians should be warned that any stationary vehicle should be approached with caution because of its latent potential to suddenly accelerate(3) Traffic controllers and traffic police should be trained in how best to deal with runaway vehicles.   The Police in the United Arab Emirates seem fairly well organized in this respect

The newspaper article ends with this comment:

"In a similar incident in Saudi Arabia last month, police triggered the automatic brakes of a Toyota Land Cruiser stuck in cruise control at 210kph by shooting out the rear windscreen, according to the Saudi newspaper Al Rayat."

In  my opinion we would be well advised to  treat the modern car fitted with an electronic  throttle with the respect that our forebears  used to treat a team of horses. If a car should get an electronic  hissy fit it will have the potential kick of several hundred horses and might well kick us to kingdom come! And there must surely be a better fail safe of last resort than shooting out the rear windscreen!

User Rank
Re: Electronic Sudden Unintended Acceleration Good on you Honda thanks for being Honest!
Francene   7/11/2014 10:28:04 AM
It obvious that you haven't had the pleasure of being in one of these death traps! As My Mums corolla had it happen once to her , and another time to my brother 5 weeks ago! His experience was it took off as he was coming into a busy roundabout, got the picture, was in the right lane couldn't hold it as hit was hitting peak revs and had to veer to left lane as he would have Ran up the back of the car in front...he got it around and got off side off road , by putting it in to neutral and turning the ignition off . Was in shock as you would be! Checked his pants! Turned the ignition on Car went in to peak revs even harder then the spin around the circle, with no foot on break or the accelerator peddle..And all the time the accelerator peddle was up, so wipe out sticky peddle or the other lie as the mats are killers ! Oh then the driver error bullshit! Then you have a case call unintended acceleration might add the sudden there to.Know at the moment we are trying to get the manufacturer to take its lemon back! But they are telling us their tests are fault free and the car has never suffered that.But I can tell you that my Mun and brother thought they were going to die! And Toyota are telling us it never happened ! They are pulling the wool over their customers eyes as we are not ediots as what they are making out! SO in other words Go away and kill your self and wipe a family out! Then come back! Oh thats if your still alive and not in prison for mansaluter! And the oly way wr could win this

User Rank
Re: Electronic Sudden Unintended Acceleration
rich.pell   7/11/2014 9:14:24 AM
"It's not nearly as simple as you make it, however."

Not surprising given that the above "comment" appears to be plastered over the comments sections of numerous other sites that happen to mention "Toyota" and "recall" etc.  The words "spam" and "troll" come to mind...

"So, does anyone doubt that driver error is at least a contributing factor?"

Sure: conspiracy theorists, publicity seeking "consumer activists," and expert witnesses/consultants and lawyers who see big $$$ in potential lawsuits against big corporations.

User Rank
Required driver's reaction
_hm   7/10/2014 7:05:47 PM
It looks like that these types of problem will recur. It will be nice to have drvier's trained for this type of problems to mitigate the risk, just like other driving lessons. Are there suggested list for this?

User Rank
Another Unintended Acceleration Software Recall
taylor.johnson   7/10/2014 5:44:17 PM
Here is another example (albeit for buses) of a software recall for unintended acceleration, it is also quite recent from May 2014.

Report Receipt Date: MAY 28, 2014
NHTSA Campaign Number: 14V303000
Component(s): POWER TRAIN
Potential Number of Units Affected: 2

Manufacturer: Champion Bus, Inc.

SUMMARY: Champion Bus, Inc. (Champion) is recalling certain model year 2014 Defender shuttle buses built on Freightliner M2 chassis, equipped with Eaton-brand hybrid automated transmissions. The software controlling the affected transmissions may improperly raise the vehicle's engine speed during downshifts without the driver's input.

CONSEQUENCE: The increase in engine speed may result in unintended acceleration, increasing the risk of a crash.

User Rank
Re: Electronic Sudden Unintended Acceleration
Bert22306   7/10/2014 5:28:46 PM
It's not nearly as simple as you make it, however.

The first cases of unintended acceleration that made a big news splash occurred in the 1980s, before electronic throttle controls, and Audi was the bad guy. The best anyone could determine then was that that drivers were planting their foot on the accelerator rather than the brake, in spite of their denials. Audi moved the pedals further apart, and the news blitz seemed to die down. At the time, I think it was Car and Driver magazine that took comparative measurements of the positioning of pedals in different cars, and the Audi ones were a little bit shifted to the left. So that's a possibility.

So, does anyone doubt that driver error is at least a contributing factor? I don't. Is it still the major contributing factor, as it must have been before electronic thottles were introduced? Well, we simply don't know.

Any time driver error is involved in any accident, which I'll bet a fair sum of money is the staggeringly vast majority of times, an autonomous vehicle would most likely have avoided the accident. I mean, just imagine all the cases of driver inattention that lead to rear end collisions or collisions through intersections. Easily solved with more automation.

This problem of software glitch causing unintended acceleration is fairly easily solved by mandating a mechanical override, so that any application of the brake closes the throttle. Yes, there may be some corner cases where some will claim you need to apply brakes and accelerator simultaneously, but you know what? As manual transmissions gradually disappear from the scene, even those corner cases will become mostly irrelevant. Not to mention that there are other, more clever ways of managing that starting-up-a-steep-hill-without -rolling-back problem, oh yeah, with control algorithms.

The idea that manual driving is somehow the only "safe" way of moving a vehicle is fairly absurd, just looking at drivers day in and day out. As much as these software-induced glitches occur, their incidence has to be minuscule compared with what we face every day on the road. (Not saying that the problem should be ignored, of course.) Think about it.

Parris Boyd
User Rank
The cat is out of the bag
Parris Boyd   7/10/2014 5:19:23 PM
Another fine article from EE Times, one of the few publications that has dared to expose the facts about electronic issues associated with unintended acceleration. And right on for Charlene Blake's commentary.

I referenced this article in today's blog post, "Toyota remains mum as Honda admits to electronically-induced unintended acceleration." 

User Rank
Re: Electronic Sudden Unintended Acceleration
junko.yoshida   7/10/2014 4:17:58 PM
@charleneBlake, you make excellent points.

Due to our content management system, it looks like your thoughtful response didn't correctly render (no breaks between paragraphs).

Because I would like many of our readers to read you response, let me post again, all the points you made in your comment, with paragraph breaks, below:



Toyota and Lexus are #1 in cases of sudden unintended acceleration and FORD is #2.

The current unintended acceleration plaguing newer vehicles is the electronically-induced type.

The engine throttle control systems depend on computer software to command them. Sometimes glitches in some of your other electronic devices...which can cause the command to be different than what you desire.

The evidence of the glitch is often undetectable after the vehicle is restarted.

Unfortunately, the EDR (black box) is not always accurate as shown by expert Dr. Antony Anderson in his analysis of a 2012 Toyota Highlander. The EDR results indicated the driver was not braking when she was doing so.

The EDR results are inconsistent.

The key to avoiding a horrific crash during a SUA event is whether or not the vehicle has an effective fail-safe in the event a glitch occurs.

If it does not, as in the case of the glitch-prone Toyota ETCS-i, then the vehicle may become a runaway with an ineffective means to stop it.

Unfortunately, the safety standards aren't as strict in automobiles as they are in airplanes.

Some manufacturers have more effective fail-safes than others. In the case of Toyota, an embedded software expert, Michael Barr (see Oklahoma Bookout vs. Toyota court case involving a 2005 Camry) found that an electronic glitch could induce a SUA event.

Another expert, Dr. Henning Leidecker, found that a SUA event could also be triggered by "tin whisker" formation, particularly in 2002-2006 Toyota Camry vehicles.

SUA events have been DEADLY for vehicle occupants as well as pedestrians and people in storefronts, buildings, and even homes.

The numbers of such crashes are ever-increasing with the advent of the very complex ELECTRONIC throttle control systems.

With the increase in such serious vehicle crashes, there is a concerted effort to show driver "pedal misapplication" or a "medical condition" or some other reason for the incident...anything other than a vehicle defect.

Investigators aren't scrutinizing the buggy electronic throttle control software or other conditions that can elicit a terrifying sudden unintended acceleration incident.

They usually just examine the *mechanical* causes which tend to be just red herrings in these cases.

Investigators simply don't have the expertise to find such electronic glitches.

In fact, the staff at the NHTSA, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, do not have this very specialized training! Think of it...the next step in electronically-controlled vehicles seems to be so-called "self-driving cars."

Do YOU want to be in such a vehicle when there is no evidence that strict safety standards, particularly in the throttle control system's software, have been adhered to?

Will you just BLINDLY trust the automaker (criminally-investigated and nearly-prosecuted Toyota and soon-to-be GM and others?) to come through for you and your family's safety *on its own*?

A recently published Huffington Post article by Jonathan Handel, How Do We Know Driverless Cars Are Safe? Google Says 'Trust Us' Posted: 07/01/2014 7:23 pm EDT Updated: 07/02/2014 1:48 pm EDT speaks to these very issues and poses tough questions about Google's "driverless" vehicles.

Educate yourself carefully before you put your faith in automakers who have knowingly lied to their customers and the government for decades.

Study the issue of vehicle electronic sudden unintended acceleration and ask WHY we aren't seeing it addressed publicly.

WHY is blame placed on the driver with little more than speculation about which pedal was used or with little more than an assumption on medical condition.

This is being done *even when the drivers steadfastly cite a VEHICLE PROBLEM as the cause of the crash. Absence of proof is not proof of absence of a serious ELECTRONIC computer glitch or other electronically-caused SUA. Charlene Blake

<<   <   Page 7 / 8   >   >>

EE Life
Frankenstein's Fix, Teardowns, Sideshows, Design Contests, Reader Content & More
Max Maxfield

Aging Brass: Cow Poop vs. Horse Doo-Doo
Max Maxfield
As you may recall, one of the things I want to do with the brass panels I'm using in my Inamorata Prognostication Engine is to make them look really old. Since everything is being mounted ...

EDN Staff

11 Summer Vacation Spots for Engineers
EDN Staff
This collection of places from technology history, museums, and modern marvels is a roadmap for an engineering adventure that will take you around the world. Here are just a few spots ...

Glen Chenier

Engineers Solve Analog/Digital Problem, Invent Creative Expletives
Glen Chenier
- An analog engineer and a digital engineer join forces, use their respective skills, and pull a few bunnies out of a hat to troubleshoot a system with which they are completely ...

Larry Desjardin

Engineers Should Study Finance: 5 Reasons Why
Larry Desjardin
I'm a big proponent of engineers learning financial basics. Why? Because engineers are making decisions all the time, in multiple ways. Having a good financial understanding guides these ...

Flash Poll
Like Us on Facebook
EE Times on Twitter
EE Times Twitter Feed Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)