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Brakeshoe
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Sure, you can use WiFi to control your submarine!
Brakeshoe   7/29/2014 10:16:48 PM
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Sure, you can use 2.4 gHz UHF "WiFi" to control your submarine -- Just do it like we do SatCom on real submarines with a towed buoy or periscope antenna!

Aeroengineer
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Blogger
Re: Sure, you can use WiFi to control your submarine!
Aeroengineer   7/29/2014 10:20:51 PM
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You know, that would make it easy if it sprung a leak!  All you would need to do is chase the line.

 

Actually there have been a few people that have done that, and it does work, though is rather tedious.  It gets even much worse when you are operating with 20 other boats in the pool.

pelleplutt
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Rookie
Instead of Fourier...
pelleplutt   7/30/2014 10:47:20 AM
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.. you might get away with Görtzel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goertzel_algorithm

Aeroengineer
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Blogger
Re: Instead of Fourier...
Aeroengineer   7/30/2014 10:50:25 AM
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I will have to take a look at it.  I appreciate you bringing this method up.  I wonder what the computational expense is compared to a typical FFT.  I may have also found another solution, but I need to check into it more.

TonyTib
User Rank
CEO
Re: Sure, you can use WiFi to control your submarine!
TonyTib   7/30/2014 11:58:02 AM
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No, build a huge antenna in your back yard and use ELF like boomers!

Kevin Neilson
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Manager
Attenuation
Kevin Neilson   7/30/2014 12:46:17 PM
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What's the attenuation of the 75MHz signal in water?  I would think the signal would fall off really quickly, even for such a relatively low frequency.  Is there a long antenna that stays near the surface?  I guess an easy experiment would be to put an FM radio in a ziploc bag and dive to the bottom of a pool and see if you can still hear the radio station.

arclight_arclight
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Rookie
Frequency of operation
arclight_arclight   7/30/2014 12:48:40 PM
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I hope you don't honestly intend to operate on 75 MHz exactly.  That's the same frequency the air transport industry uses for marker beacons, and having both the FAA and FCC to answer to doesn't seem like a very good idea.

Are you perhaps proposing to operate in the 72 MHz R/C band? 

Aeroengineer
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Attenuation
Aeroengineer   7/30/2014 12:49:19 PM
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75MHz actually does pretty well as long as it is not in brackish water.  This project is not so much to do something completely new, just to provide a new supply of 75MHz receivers because the current supply is dwindling.  I have a paper that I am trying to find for another individual.  Once I find it, I will see if I can post a link to it.  It gives the attenuation factors over a range of frequencies.

Aeroengineer
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Blogger
Re: Frequency of operation
Aeroengineer   7/30/2014 12:51:00 PM
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There is a 75MHz band that the FCC has designated for RC surface use.  72MHz is designated for air use.  In that 75MHz band, they have also authorized other communication items (I think that it is pagers if I remember correctly).

Kevin Neilson
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Manager
FFT
Kevin Neilson   7/30/2014 12:56:30 PM
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I don't think you need to do an FFT.  There are a couple of much simpler ways to do things.  You can do an arctan (or approximation) of the IF or baseband to find phase and then take the derivative of that (i.e., the difference between the last two samples) to get the frequency.  Another, possibly easier, method is to center two bandpass (or a highpass/lowpass) FIRs around the two FSK frequencies and then measure the ratio of the average power output of each (finding the power would require a squarer or square approximation and another lowpass to average).

There are a lot of other problems to deal with, though, if you need to do an AGC loop, carrier recovery, etc.  I'm not sure how much your chip is already doing for you.  This might be a huge task.

Edit:  I just looked up the datasheet of that part.  It's pretty nice, and no, it looks like you don't have to worry about AGC or carrier recovery.  The output is not quadrature, so forget what I said about finding the arctan (which only works for complex signals).  You'll just have two audio tones to discriminate, so I'd just use the two FIR filters.  It's audio so the processing requirements are really low.  I see now you already suggested the FIR filters (actually, for audio, IIR would be fine) but worried about the latency.  I don't think you need to worry about that.  We are talking about steering a boat, where 100ms of latency is probably nothing, and the IIR latency would be more like a couple of ms at the most.

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