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betajet
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Not an Aggie joke
betajet   8/27/2014 9:33:49 AM
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A long time ago I read that Texas A&M used cow manure to age a new brick building so it would fit in with the others.  The technique was called "animal patina" IIRC.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Not an Aggie joke
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:37:04 PM
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@betajet: The technique was called "animal patina"...

We could also call it a "bovine buff"

antedeluvian
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Tanning
antedeluvian   8/27/2014 10:14:31 AM
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Max

In ye olden times (and in 3rd world countries) tanning a hide to make leather used dung, urine, cow brains etc. and it sounds a bit like the process you have just followed. So perhaps modern tanning techniques would age the brass as well. I found this crowd (with an outlet in Hunstville).

Just a thought.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Tanning
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:41:16 PM
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@antedeluvian: In ye olden times (and in 3rd world countries) tanning a hide to make leather used dung, urine, cow brains etc....

In Roman times they used the ammonia from unrine to wash clothes -- I heard about the cow brains for tanning -- I don't know if I have the stomach to try that on my brass. I'll check out that website you mention (how do you find this stuff?)

dt_hayden
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Wow
dt_hayden   8/27/2014 10:30:54 AM
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Your level of commitment to detail is commendable.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Wow
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:43:07 PM
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@dt_hayden: Your level of commitment to detail is commendable.

Thank you -- I've spent so much time and effort on the rest of the Inamorata Engine project that I think it's worth while making the brass panels look as good as possible.

zeeglen
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Llama dung
zeeglen   8/27/2014 11:17:35 AM
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Max, would be interesting to experiment with llama dung on brass.  Google "Llama dung leather" to see other uses :>}

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Llama dung
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:44:59 PM
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@zeeglen: ...would be interesting to experiment with llama dung on brass

It woule certainly separate me from the hoi polloi LOL

Do you have a source?

Rcurl
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Very scientific
Rcurl   8/27/2014 2:11:26 PM
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I like the scientific way you went about ths!

I think it may have been me who mentioned the Imagineers' method of aging brass.  I have scoured the Internet, but I have not been able to find any references to the recipe. My vague recollection is that in addition to cow poo it included straw, vinegar, and molasses.  I could be wrong abnout the other ingredients- it's been many years since I got the tour of the "underside" of Epcot Center. 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Very scientific
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:46:12 PM
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@Rcurl: ...I think it may have been me who mentioned the Imagineers' method of aging brass...

That wouldn't surprise me -- you've often led me into trouble LOL

antedeluvian
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More chemicals
antedeluvian   8/27/2014 2:57:37 PM
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Found this-

http://www.squidoo.com/oxidizecopperbrass

One of the options uses a product called "Black Max". Destiny!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: More chemicals
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:47:43 PM
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@Antedeluvian: One of the options uses a product called "Black Max". Destiny!

Now, if only you could find a breed of cow (or lama) called a "Black Max" ...

antedeluvian
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Re: More chemicals
antedeluvian   8/28/2014 1:09:15 PM
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Max

Now, if only you could find a breed of cow (or lama) called a "Black Max" ...

I thought I would take you up on your challenge. I didn't find one but I did find this which may be for a Blackmax cow, depending on how you parse the product title. What I did find puzzling is quite what this device is supposed to do. Read the description.

What is hardware disease? Does my computer have it? Do cows suffer from software disease? Does the cow swallow this magnet? As Arthur Fallowfield (Kenneth Williams) on "Beyond our Ken" used to say "The answer lies in the soil!"

Max The Magnificent
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Re: More chemicals
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 1:12:50 PM
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@Antedeluvian: What I did find puzzling is quite what this device is supposed to do.

My understanding is that cows can pick up bits of metal when they are chowing down on the grass in a field -- you sick one of these down their throat and it attracts any magnetic metals and holds them tight as the thing wends it's way through the cow's stomachs

antedeluvian
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Re: More chemicals
antedeluvian   8/28/2014 1:14:39 PM
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Max

wends it's way

tsk, tsk!

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: More chemicals
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 1:17:58 PM
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@Antedelivian: ...tsk, tsk!

You are a hard taskmaster -- I was up early and at at ESC Brazil all ay yesterday -- then gave my final talk from 5:00pm to 6:00pm -- then raced to the airport and flew through the night with only two hours of sleep -- and now I'm back in the saddle using one hand tio type and the other to hold my eyelids open... and you will hold me to every apostrophe LOL

perl_geek
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Freelancer
Steampunk
perl_geek   8/27/2014 4:32:38 PM
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This sounds like a problem the steampunk community and its suppliers must have faced regularly. It might be worth researching their results.

 

P.S. Is it unreasonable to expect that clicking on "Post a comment" at the top of the article, or "COMMENT" at the bottom might bring up this panel?

Neither seems to have any effect; the only way to enter a comment is by clickling on "Reply" in someone else's post.

Sheetal.Pandey
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Re: Steampunk
Sheetal.Pandey   8/28/2014 3:16:08 AM
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I can understand the smells you are talkign about. I do composting of kitchen waste at home so can figure out. Yes cow dung is extremely rich in so many minerals. Dried cowdung is used as fuel in many parts of India. Comingto the aging of brass, the pictures you have put looks like a piece of art. Where are you going to use them...I mean why would you age the brass.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Steampunk
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:53:43 PM
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@Sheetal: Where are you going to use them...I mean why would you age the brass.

These are just small test pieces. Take a look at my most recent Inamorata Prognostication Engine column -- that shows the full-size brass panels I'm using in a 1929 wooden radio cabinet. I want these panels to look like they are 100 years old -- not brand new and shiny...

toddkrein
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Re: Steampunk
toddkrein   8/28/2014 2:39:41 PM
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Now, of course, you have the perfect test bed for testing brass cleaners. I wonder if taking a piece that had been, um, over-aged and then cleaning it abit might give you a piece that looks more authentic, since the corrosion has gone deeper.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Steampunk
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 3:11:54 PM
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@toddkrein: I wonder if taking a piece that had been, um, over-aged and then cleaning it abit might give you a piece that looks more authentic, since the corrosion has gone deeper.

That is a VERY interesting idea -- I will try that on one side of my test pieces (I'll keep the other side "as is" because I do like the look, even though it's too much for the main panels.

Rcurl
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Re: Steampunk
Rcurl   8/28/2014 8:59:48 AM
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@Perl_geek: P.S. Is it unreasonable to expect that clicking on "Post a comment" at the top of the article, or "COMMENT" at the bottom might bring up this panel?

Neither seems to have any effect; the only way to enter a comment is by clickling on "Reply" in someone else's post.

Thanks for mentioning that.  I had noticed the same thing, but I thought it was just me.

zeeglen
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Re: Steampunk
zeeglen   8/28/2014 9:07:07 AM
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the only way to enter a comment is by clickling on "Reply" in someone else's post

You can click on "Post Message" at the bottom of any post, enter a new subject.


antedeluvian
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Re: Steampunk
antedeluvian   8/28/2014 9:26:04 AM
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perl_geek

P.S. Is it unreasonable to expect that clicking on "Post a comment" at the top of the article, or "COMMENT" at the bottom might bring up this panel?

Neither seems to have any effect; the only way to enter a comment is by clickling on "Reply" in someone else's post.

I don't seem to have this problem although I have had similar problems in the past, and it was tied to the browser I was using. I maintain Internet Explorer, Firefox and Chrome on my desktop for just that reason. Currently IE seems to work fine.

 

What browser are you using?

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Steampunk
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:49:59 PM
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@perl_geek: ...the only way to enter a comment is by clickling on "Reply" in someone else's post.

I'm not defending the system (don;t get me started on that) -- but in fact you can start a new comment thread by clicking the "Post Message" link next to the "Reply" link on any comment.

prabhakar_deosthali
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CEO
Re: an Idea
prabhakar_deosthali   8/28/2014 5:00:14 AM
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The best way to age it could be just leaving it in your open backyard space for a couple of months - the atmospheric dust, sunlight , rain and the pollution of the vehicles will do the necessary.

 

How about attaching those brass plates on your car so as to face the car exhaust?

Max The Magnificent
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Re: an Idea
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:55:50 PM
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@prabhakar: The best way to age it could be just leaving it in your open backyard space for a couple of months...

This is one of the techniques I'm going to try -- I should have done this already -- I'll go out and find the right spot this coming weekend.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: an Idea
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:57:38 PM
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@prabhakar: How about attaching those brass plates on your car so as to face the car exhaust?

That woudl work with these little test pieces -- but not with the full-size panels, the biggest of whic his about 11" x 11"

Wnderer
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CEO
In-Manure-Ata Poop-Mastication Engine
Wnderer   8/28/2014 10:35:40 AM
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@Max -- All I know is that I want something that looks old and interesting and has a patina that makes you want to say "Ooh, tasty!"

And using manure is the first thing that comes to mind? LOL

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: In-Manure-Ata Poop-Mastication Engine
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 12:59:32 PM
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@Wnderer: And using manure is the first thing that comes to mind? LOL

Well, it came to Rcurl's mind, because he was the one who told me LOL

vvc0
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Manager
wading
vvc0   8/28/2014 3:08:58 PM
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Well, Max, you've given new meaning to the term "wading through the bs"

Max The Magnificent
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Re: wading
Max The Magnificent   8/28/2014 3:13:22 PM
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@vvc0: ...you've given new meaning to the term "wading through the bs"

I dare to go where others fear to tread -- just hand me my yellow wellington boots LOL

Garcia-Lasheras
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Doo-doo wins!!
Garcia-Lasheras   8/28/2014 9:11:36 PM
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My friend, you always manage to surprise me. This is one of your weirdest (known) experiments ;-)

My 5 cents about the different results you have obtained with the cow poop and the horse doo-doo: the horse's one is very appreciated as a fertilizer, far better than the cow one... but "cow poop" is widely used because is cheaper to obtain -- believe me, I've been buried up to my knees in that "substance" while helping my father at his bulls farm!!

This makes me suppose that the horse "doo-doo" wins in your aging brass experiment because contains a higher amount of ammonium and other chemical substances.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
Max The Magnificent   8/29/2014 9:39:07 AM
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@Garcia: This makes me suppose that the horse "doo-doo" wins in your aging brass experiment because contains a higher amount of ammonium and other chemical substances.

I think you are right -- and since you have such ready access to the stuff, if I decide to go that route I will send you my brass panels along with detailed instructions on how I wish you to age them LOL

kfield
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
kfield   8/31/2014 10:49:00 AM
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@maxthemagnificent "And since you have such ready access to the stuff, if I decide to go that route I will send you my brass panels along with detailed instructions on how I wish you to age them LOL"

 

Ah, I think he should send the poop to you instead!!! LOL

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
Max The Magnificent   9/2/2014 12:12:25 PM
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@kfield: I think he should send the poop to you instead

Such is the story of my life :-)

antedeluvian
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
antedeluvian   8/29/2014 12:06:30 PM
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javi

my father at his bulls farm!!

As i recall, you live in Pamplona. And your father raises bulls. Is it too much of a leap to ask if your father raises the bulls for Pamplona's famous event?

Garcia-Lasheras
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
Garcia-Lasheras   8/30/2014 6:39:05 PM
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 No, the bulls from my father's farm are "just for beef" -- this is the only kind of bull I like, despite the fact I'm from Pamplona  ;-) 

 

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
Max The Magnificent   9/2/2014 12:13:36 PM
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@Garcia: ...the bulls from my father's farm are "just for beef"...

I wish you could have been at the barbeque restaurant in Brazil -- I think you would have really enjoyed it

Garcia-Lasheras
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Re: Doo-doo wins!!
Garcia-Lasheras   9/2/2014 12:20:32 PM
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@Max: Ohhhhh.... picanha, I love it.... I feel envy of you right now -- and hunger!!!

Wnderer
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CEO
Etching Brass
Wnderer   8/29/2014 10:15:11 AM
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I think the 'tasty' you are looking for might be better achieved by etching a border design before applying a patina. There's some how to out there if you google it.


There's this darkmagnet site that seems to be doing similar stuff to what you doing. You're not allowing links so google "darkmagnet wordpress".

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Etching Brass
Max The Magnificent   8/29/2014 10:21:02 AM
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@Wnderer: I think the 'tasty' you are looking for might be better achieved by etching a border design before applying a patina.

Like the Steampunk Synthesizer below you mean? I agree -- it looks awesome -- if only I had the skill...



ccalvin
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Steam Punk Patina
ccalvin   8/29/2014 10:55:41 PM
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I sent the cow/horse poop suggestion to my son (potential steam punker) and wife (former (perhaps perpetually) farm girl).  My wife provided this response:

Fast-tracking patina for
brass:  (from Mom)

Left on its own without any intervention, unlacquered brass will begin to
darken in about a month and will continue to take on a deeper patina with age
and use.  (Look up the next time you are seated at our dining room
table.)  To accelerate this process, placing the items in HOT water will
speed up the oxidation.  Another trick is to place an open can of
traditional latex paint next to the unlacquered brass item in an enclosed area
for at least 24 hours.  The fumes from the paint will quicken the patination
process.


And, by the way, BRASS IS BACK, in a big way.  The appetite for nickel and
chrome is at the saturation point.  Just ask Martha Stewart.







Max The Magnificent
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Re: Steam Punk Patina
Max The Magnificent   9/2/2014 12:10:15 PM
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@ccalvin: My wife provided this response...

Very interesting -- thanks for sharing (does your wife want a job aging my brass panels? LOL)

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Steam Punk Patina
Max The Magnificent   9/2/2014 12:11:37 PM
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@ccalvin: And, by the way, BRASS IS BACK, in a big way. [...] Just ask Martha Stewart.

I keep on trying to bring it up everry time I see her, but she keeps waffling on about cookies and curtains and stuff :-)

jchrisj
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Patina book
jchrisj   9/4/2014 8:59:33 AM
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I just found a book in a local bookstore called:

"Patina: 300+ coloration effects for Jewlers and Metalsmiths" by Matthew Runfola.

It looks like it just came out in February of this year. I found it on the shelf at a Books-A-Million but it is available on Amazon.

It is organized by metal (Brass, copper, silver, etc.) and contains page after page of pictures of metal samples and a description of the treatment that was used to get the effect you see.

The pictures can't give you as accurate a look at the effects as having a physical sample but you could find a few that you like and test them yourself.

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Patina book
Max The Magnificent   9/4/2014 12:18:27 PM
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@jchrisj: I just found a book in a local bookstore called: "Patina: 300+ coloration effects for Jewlers and Metalsmiths" by Matthew Runfola.

OMG! Thank you, thank you, thank you. I just ordered a copy -- now I must perform my happy dance!

ClarkeMonroe
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Brass Doodie
ClarkeMonroe   9/11/2014 10:38:24 PM
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Next time I think we could really use a picture of you working with the cans of poo.  You know, just to set the scene. ;)

I have absolutely no experience with aging metals but I'd love to see a couple of brass pieces for comparison.  I'm thinking an untarnished brass piece and a naturally aged brass piece (weathered outside) alongside the new brass pieces as you try new methods.

As always, looking forward to seeing the next step!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Brass Doodie
Max The Magnificent   9/12/2014 9:48:41 AM
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@Clarke: Next time I think we could really use a picture of you working with the cans of poo.

I have a can in the post to you so you don;t have to imagine what it's like LOL

ClarkeMonroe
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Re: Brass Doodie
ClarkeMonroe   9/15/2014 8:05:07 AM
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Oh please no!  If that comes to the house and my wife opens it I think you'll find that I will have aged more impressively than the brass.

Perhaps I should take a picture of myself as a control.  :)

 

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Brass Doodie
Max The Magnificent   9/12/2014 9:51:42 AM
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@Clarke: I'd love to see a couple of brass pieces for comparison.

I'm trying different techniques and keeping all of the results -- I have a piece on the roof of my office building as we speak -- it's been up there for a week now in the sun & rain with a dash of polution -- I need to go up there ant photograph it -- I plan on doing that week by week so we can see how it evolves -- bujt it's drizzling at the moment and the ladder on the side of the building is dangerous enough as it is .. so I'll wait a bit :-)

If you are really interested, I could bring out all of my test pieces to ESC Silicon Valley next year...

 

ClarkeMonroe
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Re: Brass Doodie
ClarkeMonroe   9/15/2014 8:18:18 AM
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I didn't realize (but should have known) that you already had a piece weathering naturally for comparison.  I'm interested to see this process and I'll bet that book mentioned earlier will be a big help.

I'd love to see them in person, but I actually might be making my way to Huntsville, AL before the next ESC.  Which might save you from having to explain how you aged the brass to the TSA. :)

Also I'm not certain I'll be able to make it to ESC again this year but I'm hopeful!

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Brass Doodie
Max The Magnificent   9/15/2014 9:54:54 AM
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@Clarke: ...but I actually might be making my way to Huntsville, AL before the next ESC.

Cool beans -- you'll have to come and visit me at my office and then we could go out for lunch -- when do you think you might be coming over here?

ClarkeMonroe
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Re: Brass Doodie
ClarkeMonroe   9/18/2014 9:16:20 PM
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That'd be great!  I'm shooting for late October, but I'll follow-up with you via email as soon as I can lock something down.

Max The Magnificent
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Re: Brass Doodie
Max The Magnificent   9/19/2014 10:34:43 AM
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@clarke: I'm shooting for late October, but I'll follow-up with you via email as soon as I can lock something down.

I'd better start cleaning up my office!



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