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Industry Responds to CPU Security Vulnerability

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photonic
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
photonic   1/6/2018 2:32:00 PM
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My argument is that both people and companies want to maximize profit. There are many ways to attempt to accomplish it. Some are short sighted and may only increase profit in the short term because they do not add any value to what is offered. Lying, for example.

realjjj
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
realjjj   1/6/2018 12:15:46 AM
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Your argument is that one path is better than another in achieving a goal but you forget that the topic is the goal and not the road to it. Apple pretends to care about its customers, Google used to not be evil but that's just the strategy, the path they take towards achieving a goal and that goal is to maximize profits. Society through shareholders can influence this path but the impact is minimal and has been declining over the last century.

Is it normal for someone like Qualcomm or Intel to do workforce reductions even when they are very very profitable already? Is it acceptable for Apple or Google to exploit loopholes to pay lower taxes? We see it as normal because we understand and accept that corporations are about maximizing profits. We don't expect Intel to care about the workforce and try to grow into it. We don't expect Apple to be decent and pay their fair share to help feed starving children, help build schools, roads, fund the military. Accepting all of this as normal and as the right path is cynical and maybe plain cruel but simply stating a truth, a fact, can't be cynical. The main driver for corporations is profit maximization.

We have pretty much zero expectations for corporations to care about anything but money - the way we view their most socially damaging actions firmly proves that. We know it, we think it, yet somehow it is a sin to say it? That's nuts. We are fools when we romanticize corporations- props to the folks in PR, marketing and the likes.

Nothing is black and white and that's why I always say "main driver" and do not use the term "only driver " but there wouldn't be any trace of humanity in the ideal corporation.

photonic
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
photonic   1/5/2018 10:39:03 PM
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Yes, I think many US corporations had decided to make short term profits by manufacturing in China. That decision has led to China becoming a world class engineering power and a major competitive threat to US corporations thereby reducing US corporations long term profits and not increasing US corporations shareholder primacy. A very short sighted decision that will, because of the necessity of profit, be corrected.

photonic
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
photonic   1/5/2018 10:05:34 PM
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The basic principal behind a person, in our world, is individual primacy. It is generally accepted that the objective of a person is to maximize the person's own benefit. However, a person, in order to achieve long term success, will not lie (what you call a "shameless and disgraceful spin") because, in the long term, a lie may not maximize the persons own benefit but may in fact minimize it.  A company, and it's owners (shareholders), are no different.   

realjjj
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
realjjj   1/5/2018 10:03:49 PM
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Just to add something, it was surprising to hear that you do not agree. You often claim that the US needs to be strong in manufacturing and the current situation is disastrous. Shareholder primacy is precisely why we are here, it's all about the money.

realjjj
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
realjjj   1/5/2018 9:27:46 PM
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I'm talking about their behavior inside the limits established by laws and regulation while you seem to be thinking of criminal behavior.

The basic principle behind corporations, in our world, is shareholder primacy. It is generally accepted that the objective of companies is to maximize shareholders' benefits.

Corporations could in theory be social institutions but we would need the will and legal framework for that. I would at least like to see not for profit corporations as such an entity would be possible without very complex reforms.

photonic
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
photonic   1/5/2018 7:49:43 PM
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You are cynical. Corporations are held to a much higher standard of conduct than a person because a corporation can do much more harm. The people who state that the only purpose of a corporation is to make money are wrong, and the US has laws to prove this. Consider Enron.

realjjj
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
realjjj   1/5/2018 5:50:35 PM
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That's the funny thing, it is not cynical at all, yet it is regarded as cynical.  We love to fool ourselves into looking at corporations as someone that thinks and behaves like a person but they can never be that, they legally can't. Corporations got a single purpose, to make the most money they can, to serve the shareholders. Social responsibility is PR. We all know this but somehow, for some reason, we are quick to forget all of that and tend to humanize corporations, treat them like they are people.

The shameless and disgraceful spin in the last days does make this occasion worse. Many are effectively trying to claim that all security holes will be fixed shortly and that there is "practically" no impact on performance. Ofc nobody has any blame either, like the way the industry designs CPUs was somehow defined by divine law.

You do seem to see the fix as the main goal but that's not the goal. The goals are always financial, you are in trouble, what do you to get out of it with the least financial impact  Also need to point out that I was not saying that there was collusion to hide the exploits, was saying that there is collusion to mislead about the magnitude and consequences of the exploits and that this is (and will always be) the main goal in such a situation.

You are an analyst so let's put it this way, can you predict the behaviour of a corporation if you humanize it? I know it's not exactly on topic but at least consider this question, no need to answer.


BTW Nvidia has added some info https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/product-security/

Kevin Krewell
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
Kevin Krewell   1/5/2018 2:23:13 PM
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That is a very cynical view. The security impact of speculative execution turned out to be a pervasive problem for multiple CPU designs and system software vendors. Coordinating so many parties is very difficult. In addition, there was no exploits observed in the field, so there was no big rush to make the announcement. Luckily, smart programmers are finding ways to mitigate the vulnerabilities. 

realjjj
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Re: Under wraps for weeks
realjjj   1/5/2018 12:52:26 PM
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It's also interesting how they are (almost) all trying to play down the issue in public. And that reminds us that this hurts them all so the better term for this so called cooperation, might be collusion. The main goal is to mislead and mitigate the PR disater, that's their main driver.

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